Three brass questions

[Northman81]

I'm getting a tad better at this reloading thing... in reading up everything I can around here and taking notes, I'm finding these forums are great for learning. And for getting several points of view on the same thing. So, oh great throbbing brain of reloading wisdom, I ask these...

1) When I've been shooting before I had a reloader, it always seemed that if I was firing something that somebody else was reloading, if they wanted the brass, they'd come and ask me if it was OK to take it. Not that I minded, but it seemed more polite rather than just snagging it.

Now that I'm trying to find my own, I think it's generally OK to snag the brass if I ask politely for it. When is this not OK? What would be the standards on this? I don't want to be a schmuck, but if it's no use to them... not that I'm gonna go around and scrounge the whole place. Just my neck of the woods.

2) The downside to this is that I pick up some odd stuff. I found 5 pieces today that are definitely the same sizes as the rest of mine, but there's a red circle around the primer, and the stamp says 'WCC 96'. Looking inside shows a smaller primer pocket, too. I imagine this is 'Winchester Cartridge Company' or something, but I can't figure out what it means. I always check each piece of brass before it goes into the tumbler, so I'm sure I only got the five but - what is this stuff?

3) How many times will you reload brass that was new when you started? Is there a difference between reloading the brass that I buy empty and just reusing some factory (UMC, in my case) brass?

Thanks!

[Dr. Dickie]

I'm getting a tad better at this reloading thing... in reading up everything I can around here and taking notes, I'm finding these forums are great for learning. And for getting several points of view on the same thing. So, oh great throbbing brain of reloading wisdom, I ask these...

1) When I've been shooting before I had a reloader, it always seemed that if I was firing something that somebody else was reloading, if they wanted the brass, they'd come and ask me if it was OK to take it. Not that I minded, but it seemed more polite rather than just snagging it.

Now that I'm trying to find my own, I think it's generally OK to snag the brass if I ask politely for it. When is this not OK? What would be the standards on this? I don't want to be a schmuck, but if it's no use to them... not that I'm gonna go around and scrounge the whole place. Just my neck of the woods.

2) The downside to this is that I pick up some odd stuff. I found 5 pieces today that are definitely the same sizes as the rest of mine, but there's a red circle around the primer, and the stamp says 'WCC 96'. Looking inside shows a smaller primer pocket, too. I imagine this is 'Winchester Cartridge Company' or something, but I can't figure out what it means. I always check each piece of brass before it goes into the tumbler, so I'm sure I only got the five but - what is this stuff?

3) How many times will you reload brass that was new when you started? Is there a difference between reloading the brass that I buy empty and just reusing some factory (UMC, in my case) brass?

Thanks!


1) Play it by ear. I have found that most folks that do not re-load or have so-much-brass-that-they-could-never-reload-it-all-in-the-rest-of-their-life will offer their brass to you. If you see them shooting and not picking it up (or even throwing it away), then ask.

2) I have picked up quite a bit of WCC (WCC = Western Cartridge Company) brass and re-loaded it, no problem seems to be decent brass--I think it is military. If the primer pocket is not the right size (small primer) then just toss it. More than likely the primer pocket just looks to small (perhaps the military also crimps their pistol brass like they do the rifle brass--if so, then you will have to ream the pocket before using--I guess the stuff I have found had already been de-crimped). One small note here: DO NOT PICK UP AMERC brass--it is just not worth it.

3) Re-load until lost is the what most folks do. Of couse, if you see that the brass is excessvily worn then toss it out--I haven't reached that point yet (about 6-7 re-loads on brass). I just lump all my brass together; although, I do try to keep it in lots on number of times that it has been re-loaded so that I will use a more careful eye on it.

[TheGerk]

1) On the brass recovery thing, you could monitor to see if the shooter is picking up his or her brass. After there done shooting and getting ready to leave you could ask them if would be ok to recover there brass. I know some ranges have a policy that you can only pick up your own brass, it varies in enforcement.
2) This is one of the reasons I don’t use range brass, I can’t deal with all the oddball cases.
3) I have no set cycle limit, I watch how the cases are performing. If I start getting problems (case mouth cracks, loose primer pockets, problems on the press) I just toss them

[swampthang]

At the range I shoot its expected that everyone cleans up their area, If I see a guy headin for the garbage can Ill offer to sweep up his brass when hes done shootin.

[Northman81]

I'm segmenting the brass I've fired so I know how many times I've used it. I figure I'll empty the box of new brass and put the once-fired in it, and go from there.

AMERC brass I have a few pieces of. What's wrong with it? I've not noticed anything with it yet, but I'll have to see if I've reloaded it yet or not.

And I've definitely noticed that people are happy that I'll clean up after them. Once I get to that point where I've got enough brass for the next few years, I won't need to worry about it... maybe. Everybody told me this would get addictive... they just didn't say how bad, and that there's no antidote. ;-)

[Hunter]

.45 brass with small primer pockets could be the WinNT brass (which I believe means non toxic) and that is .45 ACP brass with a small primer (not sure the reason on that) and also .45 GAP brass (Glock Automatic Pistol a round Glock developed to have the same performance as the .45 ACP in a smaller round therefore a smaller pistol) which also uses a small primer and is just about 1mm shorter than .45 ACP brass.
As far as asking for brass I will say if I see someone not collecting their brass and packing up I will ask them if they reload which steers the conversation to the brass. Most folks who shoot at the range I go to will police up their brass and leave it in a pile if they do not want it.
I usually load a case until I see the case mouth began to split or it gets lost. As far as how many times I do not keep up with that. I just look for signs of failure.

[Blackhawk]

1) Just be familiar with the rules at your range and play it by ear. Most shooters have no problem allowing others to pick up their brass if they do not reload but every so often you will run into a jerk who even though he does not want it or intend to use does not want you to have it either. Oh well they paid for it so respect their wishes.

2) I though WCC stood for Winchester Case Cartridge. It will usually have a small pistol primer instead of the large so I just leave it for others

3) Usually reload cases 5-8 X but no reason you can not keep using if case is not showing splits/cracks. Just be certain to check carefully.

[OD*]

WCC is Western Cartridge Company (Olin), East Alton, IL.

[Shoot_for_fun]

Picking brass you know is once fired is ok but think twice before latching onto brass you know nothing about.

[Herb Clark]

I've used "WCC xx" from '69 thru '98 and all have been large primer pocket - the '69 - '74 I purchased was military and I swaged open the primer pockets (had Mil. crimp) and lightly de-burred. The NT (non-toxic) made by Win., in my experience, has always beeen stamped "Win NT" and has the small primer pockets - I trash these along with the A-Merc (thin rims and other dimensional problems that are especially a no-no for revolvers or other rimmed seated cals). I only use case gauge for sanctioned matches to same time. About 5% fail case gauge but only one of a hundred of these fail to feed in my Kimber. Most that failed case gauge were "PMC" cases.

[Woodman]

As everyone else has said thus far, if you're picking up brass you didn't bring to the range with you, asking politely is the best way to go. Another thing to do is if you want to keep an eye on YOUR brass, mark the cases with a Sharpie, red stands out nicely, but a black sharpie will do as well. I've had no issues with this hurting the primers at all. I typically do this if I'm testing a round to check for signs of overpressure, etc.

Brass life depends on the quality of the brass. I know quite a few folks here don't think very highly of Remington's .45ACP brass, but I've got several hundred of these that I've reloaded 10 to 12 times with no cracks, not too short, and work just fine. You can barely read the headstamp on them, but they work just fine.

Another polite thing to do is if your neighbor at your range (especially if your range doesn't have barriers to keep your brass next to you) has casings fall in your area, hand them back over. There was a nice older fellow two spots down from me shooting this beautifully clean Starline brass that I wanted to keep, but I handed em back over. He's happy because he actually managed (with my and my friends help) to recover ALL of his brass.

If you do pick up somoene else's brass that they left behind, double check it before loading it. No sense loading up a split case or anything like that.

Also, the problem in general with AMerc brass is that their brass generally runs out of spec for reloading. They MAY fire ok out of your 1911, but they tend to not be accurate because of variations in dimensions. You could theoretically use them, but if it's range brass, throw em away, use something nicer.

[pa_guns]

Hi

I always try to police up the brass in my part of the range *before* I start shooting. Ask if the guy wants it. If he does, you did him a favor. If he doesn't then you have a bunch of brass. Either way you will have a *lot* easier time finding your own stuff.

Bob

[ArmscorBA]

When, I reload I shoot it until is splits!!! ;)
Ivan

[pa_guns]

Hi

With some of the Bulgarian ammo I have it splits before I have a chance to reload it.

As far as I can tell a brass split up by the mouth is considered a normal part of the process in some parts of the world.

I'd agree with the shoot it until it splits, unless it splits more than 1/3 of the way down the case. Kinda tough to figure out in advance.

Bob

[Herb Clark]

Splits between friends or family concern me - not .45 ACP. If my reloaded round has a split I shoot it in practice - no FTF or FTE or loss of accuracy noted at 20 yds.

[robertbank]

Like HUnter, Herb and a few others I reload my .45acp brass until it splits or the primer pocket gets so hammered a primer won't seat in it anymore then they go in the recycle bin, with spent primers and all my twice fired 9MM brass (I get tons of once fired Rem & Win 9MM brass). I have chroned once fired, brass that is mixed and older than salt brass and have found NO diference in Standard Deviation or extreme spreads. As far as accuracy is concerned from a bench or two handed it just doesn't seem to make any difference.

Amerc brass is so bad I toss the **** into the recycle bin as soon as I find it and I don't see much of it up this way thank heavons.

I jsut finished loading 200 rds of .45acp pracitce loads and I swear you would have a hard time reading the headstamp. Slowly getting to the point where I may have to let the Queen breath and buy some once fired brass off of Ebay.

Take Care

Bob

[Herb Clark]

I've even got brass so old that when I tumble it to clean some of the expended primers fall out!! (I do throw these away as I haven't found out how to make the pockets smaller - yet!) :lm:

[pa_guns]

Hi

Silver solder and a reamer will make them any size you want. Absolutely *not* worth the trouble though.

Bob

[ArmscorBA]

You guys crack me up!!! :lm: :lm:
Ivan