Thumb safety question

[pyro]

First, a million thanks to all on the forum, what a great source of information and great folks!

My SS Essex has been reincarnated two times, and I'm going for number three. Just ordered from Brownells new slide stop, Snakeskin mainspring housing, and the thumb safety with the low tab for the thumb to ride on when shooting. (Sorry, can't remember who makes that, but you know what I mean right?)

I built this from from the frame up, started with cheap GI style thumb safety, and then moved up to McCormick. I got both of them to function properly, but I had trouble both times. It's like the frame isn't relieved enough inside. Hard to describe, I'm not great with words. When either new safety was inserted through the hole in the frame, it could not be turned at all. Had to file the back side of the tab that contacts the sear. Took quite a few thousandths off, then was good to go to match things up to the sear. Is anybody getting a picture of what I mean? So if I look inside the frame at the back side of the hole for the safety, I can see where the inside surface is relieved. I think maybe not relieved enough. I had spent many hours reading here at 1911 pistols.org, and studied Kuhnhausen's manual, and never found anything about an issue like this. It's like the frame is too thick. So when my third safety arrives, I'm wondring if, instead of removing material from the safety it's self, I could releive the frame from the inside a bit. I have a Foredom and plenty of bits. This is a scary propisition though, a messed up safety is cheap compared to a frame.

Am I even bark'in up the right tree? Any light shed on this will be appreciated! Thanks feller's.

Pyro

[Ric4509]

Pyro - without the plunger spring and internals (hammer, sear and disconnector) can you flip the thumb safety up (safe) and down (fire) position?

Rick

[pyro]

Rick,

Thanks for the quick response. And sorry for poor description of the issue.

No. With the frame entirely stripped, a new thumb safety will not rotate up or down. It's like the frame it too thick.

So I guess the short question, is it common to file the safety to fit the frame? Or should the frame be relieved on the inside so as to allow the safety to rotate?

Thanks again,
Pyro


Pyro - without the plunger spring and internals (hammer, sear and disconnector) can you flip the thumb safety up (safe) and down (fire) position?

Rick

[Ric4509]

Frame too thick or the hole is out of spec or the thumb safety out of spec? Can you compare the opening with one of your 1911s? Picture?

[pyro]

Frame too thick or the hole is out of spec or the thumb safety out of spec? Can you compare the opening with one of your 1911s? Picture?

Only have one 1911. (Got an, what, '03 hammerless, no comparison)

It's been a while since I've worked on it. Is not the hole in these frames relieve somewhat on the inside surface? I seem to recall that it is.

Two different safeties had the same issue, so I assume it's the frame, not the safeties.

Pictures may be possible, but not today. When my order from Brownells arrives, and I begin working on it again, if the issue arrises once again, (am I'm fairly confident it will,) yes, I can get pictures. This should all begin next week.

Thanks,
Pyro

[wichaka]

Always modify the part before the frame........if you mess it up, cheaper to replace the part.

I've seen a few that needed to have the gap widened to get the safety to work properly.

When fitting the safety to the sear, take out the grip safety and put everything else back together.......you'll be able to see much better how fitting is progressing.....

[pyro]

Thanks for that Wichaka,

Yupper, I heard that "rule of thumb" many times, and tend to work that way.

It's just it got me thinking, having had two different safeties that the gap needed widening, and now a third on the way, that if IT needed widening also, there was probably a "spec" issue with the frame, and maybe I should try to resolve it. Don't know if that is good thinking or not.

I'm still wondering if other frames than mine have some metal releived from around the inside of the hole at the factory. I mean is that the way they all are? I'm almost sure that mine is like that, (though apparently not enough so), but it's been over a year since I've been there and really looked a it, and I don't remember.

Having the frame at the hole too thick makes fitting safeties a pain in the butt. On the other hand, hopefully I'll like this new one that's on the way, and then I'll be done with it.

And yupper, grip safety out. That's how I did the other two. Thanks.

Pyro



Always modify the part before the frame........if you mess it up, cheaper to replace the part.

I've seen a few that needed to have the gap widened to get the safety to work properly.

When fitting the safety to the sear, take out the grip safety and put everything else back together.......you'll be able to see much better how fitting is progressing.....

[wichaka]

It sounds like a spec issue with the thickness of the frame.........not sure what would be the best way to fix that.

Probably from the inside, as long as you dont get around where the hammer & sear ride against the frame........or you'll get lateral movement from them, and that won't be good.

Me thinks I would keep modifying the part and live with it.

[pyro]

I see your point. Indeed I do. I may just do that too. When the parts get here next week, maybe we'll get together on this again.

I found it especially interesting that you have seen others than needed the gap widened. I'm thinking that it aint too common, as I couldn't find nothing about it the books or in the archives at either 1911 forum. Or maybe I missed it. Older I get, more I miss.

Thanks again fellers,
Pyro

[Hawkmoon]

I've seen that with a generic frame and a generic safety. Several generic safeties, in fact. Took a loooong look inside trying to figure out how to "fix" the problem with a Dremel, then I looked in Kuhnhausen and found that he discusses widening the slot in the safety, so I figured that's the way to go.

First test, though, is to remove all the moving parts, install just the safety, and see if it will go through the full range of motion. If not, try to cycle it enough to wear off the blue at whatever point is making contact and that'll give you a clue where to start filing.

[John]

Widen the slot in the safety, I have faced that once too. Nothing to it, if you have a thin file.

[pyro]

Parts came in today. Suprisingly to me, this Gunsite thumb safety didn't need the slot widened. The slot was wide enough. Still, with out the sear in place, it would not rotate. There was a tiny "collar", just behing the tab that hits the sear, that interfered. I could tell that this collar is what keeps the safety in the frame untill rotated to that "sweet spot". But there was one tiny spot that stuck out too far, had to be filed down a hair. Then had full rotation. Reinstalled the sear and disconnect, found where the tinyest touch of metal had to be removed to clear the sear. The thumb safety locks her up like a vault now. I'm getting better at this, this was the third one, not that the other two didn't work.

I definitly like the way the Gunsite safety feels in my hand too, but will withhold judgement untill I can get to the range.

All in all it took two hours to install the thumb safety, snakeskin mainspring housing, and beavertail. Wasn't much to do to the grip safety as I was just swapping from blue to stainless, but still had to do a bit of blending and some clearencing of course. Mainspring housing, I had to file the upper tabs to thin 'em out some to get the grip safety out enough to clear the trigger bow, and also had to shave those, uh, "rails??" to get the pin hole to line up with frame. Not sure if that's proper, but that's how I done it, and it works. Oh, and the EGW slide stop pin was drop in, but I'll break the edges later, and blast it for finish to match the frame.

Last issue with this gun is ever since the Nolin barrel, she don't wanna feed hollow points reliably, and I'm thinking I need work the chamber mouth over a hair to increase the little ledge down where it sits on the frame, but that's later.

Thanks again for the good conversation fella's.

Much to learn in Oregon,
Pyro

[Hawkmoon]

I found it especially interesting that you have seen others than needed the gap widened. I'm thinking that it aint too common, as I couldn't find nothing about it the books or in the archives at either 1911 forum. Or maybe I missed it. Older I get, more I miss.
I believe I recall seeing mention of it in Vol. 2 of Kuhnhausen.

[pyro]

I've neglected to aquire volume 2, and should probably be chastised. Have managed to cripple by with only volume 1. Every time I talk myself into shelling out the dough for 2, I wind up with more tools or parts instead. Hmm, good project for this morning, search for a used copy at Amazon------?

Thanks,

Pyro

[wichaka]

pyro.........where in Oregon you at? Im in Washington across from Hood River.

If you'e close by, you're welcome to stop in..........can help you with your 1911's or do some shootin'.........or both.

[bearboy]

I ran into the same thing with an Essex frame some time back.I couldn't find a spec in either kunhausen for the frame thickness. I tried the frame with several safties ,Kimber, Mccormick and Wilson i think and they still all interfered.But it's like John says always alter the cheaper part i.e. the safety.I took a little off the inside and it works fine.

[pyro]

pyro.........where in Oregon you at? Im in Washington across from Hood River.

If you'e close by, you're welcome to stop in..........can help you with your 1911's or do some shootin'.........or both.

Thanks for that Wichaka. That sounds like fun. Truth is though, we don't get out much these days. Used to have folks to care for the critters (chickens and dogs) when we traveled, but they moved on. We're down South of Bend a leg or two. Would sure take ya up on that if'n I'm up your way sometime though. That's nice country up there, have been through in the past.

Thanks again,
Regards,

Pyro

[wichaka]

Actually was down your way awhile back.........went thru there to Sisters.

Well, will give ya a holler next time I'm down there.

[pyro]

Actually was down your way awhile back.........went thru there to Sisters.

Well, will give ya a holler next time I'm down there.

That would be great Wichaka. Always got cofee brewing. I sent ya a PM, but don't know if it went through.

By the by, I'm liking this "Gunsite" low safety. Shot three mags today of Rem greenbox roundnose with no glitches. The thumb safety feels good shooting with the thumb on top, better for me than the others I've tried. I confess that the finish as shipped isn't that great, but I'll work it over, and then blast it to match the frame.

Later,
Pyro