Plunger Lever Removal

[foxyyy]

When removing the three Series80 parts, do you really need to place a frame slot filler? What if you just cut the lever of the plunger lever and put it back in its hollow position at the right side of the slide?

[1911Tuner]

When removing the three Series80 parts, do you really need to place a frame slot filler? What if you just cut the lever of the plunger lever and put it back in its hollow position at the right side of the slide?

You can do it that way, but then if you ever want to return the gun to OEM specs, you'll need another lever. You also want to cut it correctly, so that
none of the lever protrudes above the frame railwith the trigger held fully rearward.

If you go with the frame blank, order three. They're soft and the holes will flange with use, which can get into a bind with the hammer and sear and
prevent smooth reset...or block it. I clean mine up with a smooth mill file about every 2500 rounds, and replace after the third dressing.

[foxyyy]

Thanks!

Am still waiting for my frame slot filler that I ordered. I guess I'll just have to cut off the original for the time being or just leave the plunger lever in the slide and take out the other two parts.

[1911Tuner]

Thanks!

Am still waiting for my frame slot filler that I ordered. I guess I'll just have to cut off the original for the time being or just leave the plunger lever in the slide and take out the other two parts.

If ya remove the trigger bar lever...the one that looks like a boomerang...you'll still need a slot blank to keep the sear aligned.

[garrettwc]

Tuner am I reading this right?

Doing away with the Series 80 piece is a temporary fix that has to basically be re-done every few thousand rounds due to wear on the filler blank?

[1911Tuner]

Tuner am I reading this right?

Doing away with the Series 80 piece is a temporary fix that has to basically be re-done every few thousand rounds due to wear on the filler blank?

That pretty much covers it. It's been that way in five pistols that I use the spacers in. (All my Series 80 pistols are beaters.)

The frame blank is dead soft, and was never intended to be a long-term/hard use replacement part. It was designed for pistolsmiths who got tired of fiddling with the levers when doing a trigger job, which sometimes requires several disassembly/reassembly cycles. The blank speeds things up a lot.

The good part is that they're cheap, and can be redressed 2-3 times before they're beyond saving. I'd advise keeping a fresh one in a carry gun at all times, since I haven't torn the guns down every hundred rounds or so to monitor the flanging progress. To date, I've only had one instance of the flange interfering with sear reset, and that one had about 3,000 rounds on the clock.

[John]

Wierd, I have my spacer in my pistol for more than 10 years, never had to do anything to it! I do not remember where I got it from, so I can't say anything, but it's just fine after all this time.

One more thing. To remove the Series 80 mechanism you have to remove everything from the slide. Then you can remove only the upper cam from the frame and leave it like that. The lower cam keeps the sear in alignment, which is important for the functioning of the pistol. The upper cam can be removed without any ill-effects. Then when you get that spacer, you can remove the lower cam as well.

[1911Tuner]

John...Gimme the name of the vendor that made your spacer! I want a few!The holes have flanged in all five of my pistols, and in every other pistol that I've seen'em in that have seen real use.

[John]

Johnny, I wish I could. I do not remember though.

It's been more than 10 years that I've installed that in my pistol, and even though I do not use mine as much as you use your beaters, in those 10 years there should be some gauging. It is still perfectly flat, the way it was when I first installed it. I knew it, but I got curious (some times we do not see the obvious), so I just took it apart and check it again. Smooth as a baby's rear end.

Sorry I can't be of help, I just do not remember where I got it from.

[foxyyy]

Ok..here is what I've understood so far, as a newbie in 1911s.

Frame Slot Filler:

http://www.brownells.com/Images/Products/876011780.jpg

This is where it will be installed (shown in red) after removing the series 80 components:

http://www.photos.ph/medium/224820.Series 80 copy.jpgm.jpg

It keeps both the sear and the hammer at bay in its original position. Did I get it right?

[John]

Second picture does not show. Mind you the spacer in the first picture is shown right-side up and upper-side down.

[1911Tuner]

John...I'll take a picture the next time I pull one.


Foxyyy...Yep. It'll take a little eyeballin' to get it oriented the first time or two, but it'll only go in one way, so you've got a 25% chance of getin' it right the first try. :cool:

[Hunter]

I would imagine you could take a frame blank to a machine shop and have one machined from a harder stock to where wear would not be an issue.

[wichaka]

The ones I've used are from TJ's Custom Gunworks, now Brownells sells them.

I've never had one flange on me either........Johnny you got the ghost of trigger parts past hanging out in your pistols bro'?

[garrettwc]

So I guess the only option for a Commander without a FP safety is Caspian frame and slide? Either that or find a vintage one that will cost about as much?

[1911Tuner]

I would imagine you could take a frame blank to a machine shop and have one machined from a harder stock to where wear would not be an issue.

Wear ain't the problem, mah fren. The pin holes get all buggered up and start to flange...which increases the thickness of the blank...which bears on the sear...which keeps it from resetting...which...Anyways, you get the picture. Burst-fire 1911 pistols are a lotta fun, but it do tend to frighten the horses... :D

Wichaka...I've got TJ's spacers. They flange. Nope. Don't have worn or egg-shaped pinholes in the frame either. Can't figger what's doin' it, but I've seen it a lot, in varying degrees...mostly depends on how heavy the gun has been used. I know I'm an extreme case. I mean...who in their right mind shoots 50-60k a year AND reloads all of it on a single-stage press? :rolleyes:

[1911Tuner]

So I guess the only option for a Commander without a FP safety is Caspian frame and slide? Either that or find a vintage one that will cost about as much?


Nah. You can clean'em up in two minutes, and you'll get some detail-strip practice. You do detail-strip and clean about every 2,000 rounds or so...right?

Or...Just cut the plunger lever flush with the top of the frame with the trigger held full rearward and go that route. Either way will work. I use the blanks 'cause it saves me from havin' to fiddle with the levers. Worth it to me, as often as I have to detail-strip.

[Hunter]

Tuner if you were to have frame blanks machined from the same hardness steel as the plunger lever would that prevent the holes from flanging?

[wichaka]

......who in their right mind shoots 50-60k a year AND reloads all of it on a single-stage press? :rolleyes:


Yep, mom always told me to watch out for you......... :scared:

[1911Tuner]

Tuner if you were to have frame blanks machined from the same hardness steel as the plunger lever would that prevent the holes from flanging?

Probably so. The only trouble is that the blanks would likely have to be ground to size unless you could find good steel stock that was the correct thickness...and then you'd have to harden it...which causes it to warp...and you'd have to grind it flat anyway...which would probably cause it to warp again. Flat stock that thin in the cross-section can be funny stuff to work with. Read that as one expensive little plate to make. Easier to just dress it every time you detail-strip, and replace every so often...about every 10,000 rounds. And...like John and Wichaka have shown...Not all guns do it. You may get lucky and get one that doesn't.

The alternative is also a good method. The plunger levers are about 3 bucks from Brownells. Order one and cut it, and save the original to return the gun to OEM if you need to.
********

Wichaka...that's odd. She tole ME to look out after YOU!

[Hunter]

Ah now I see. Thanks Tuner as usually you got a handle on things, glad you are on our side. All that said I have kept my Series 80 box stock as the firing pin safety does not bother me. A little aggravating reassembling the slide but a few Bush Lights will make that better. See you in a few weeks, got a few new Colts to show ya.

[garrettwc]

Nah. You can clean'em up in two minutes, and you'll get some detail-strip practice. You do detail-strip and clean about every 2,000 rounds or so...right?

Yeah, but the worry is that after an extended training session, the spacer would go belly up in a carry gun before I had the chance to tear it down and check it.

[1911Tuner]

Yeah, but the worry is that after an extended training session, the spacer would go belly up in a carry gun before I had the chance to tear it down and check it.

(That's why) I have two guns...One foah each of ya. ;)

[Gammon]

John...Gimme the name of the vendor that made your spacer! I want a few!The holes have flanged in all five of my pistols, and in every other pistol that I've seen'em in that have seen real use.

I have spacers in both of my Para P-16s which I have used heavily for many years with no ill effects; I got them from Brownells.

[foxyyy]

Just took out the firing pin plunger, plunger spring and the trigger bar lever. Left the plunger lever in its place for the meantime. Already contacted a local gunsmith and he said he need to measure the slot for precise fitting, he will also hard chrome it for added strength.

I guess a slot filler would be the only ticket for safe gun operation as it takes care of the sear and hammer moving to the right.

Many thanks to all! =)

[1911Tuner]

You do realize that, due to the Series 80 quarter-cock shelf, that in the event of a broken sear nose...the hammer may reach the firing pin with enough force to light a primer...dontcha?

Take a look at how close the hammer gets to the firing pin at half-cock. Then imagine the tip of the sear cracking and breaking off. Take an old sear and grind off about an eighth-inch of the tip...install it in the gun and pull the hammer to the quarter-cock shelf.

This won't happen with a full captive half-cock. The notch stops the hammer well before it gets to the slide.

[foxyyy]

Yup..noticed that. Does it relate to the series80 parts I just removed except for the plunger lever? Am assuming that since my gun is practically new, only shot 100rds so far, it would be safe to leave only the plunger lever in place until my gunsmith can make a slot filler for me.

[Gammon]

This swap should only be made with Series 70 hammer and sear along with the slot filler. I would leave the gun alone until the job can be done properly; you are tinkering with the most sensitive and dangerous part of the pistol.

[1911Tuner]

foxyyy, yes. The Series 80 hammer has a modified half-cock...actually a quarter cock shelf that isn't a true, captive notch as with the pre-80 hammers. The true half-cock notch arrests the hammer farther back from the firing pin. If you don't intend to carry the gun in Condition One, it's not as much of an issue, but if you do, you need a pre-80 design hammer.