7 Round vs 8 Round Mags

[thehead7]

Okay, so I've had this internal struggle for some time. It deals with 7 round versus 8 round magazines.

I have heard one and only one reason so far to stick with 7 round mags. This was passed along to my by an old company gunnery sergeant who got it from Col. Rex Applegate. The reason was that a seven round mag allowed one to engage three targets with two rounds each leaving the seventh round in the chamber for a tactical reload.

Conversely, however, I carry my pistol with eight rounds in the mag plus one in the chamber, allowing for four targets at two rounds each plus the tacload.

To me that somewhat blows out a tactical explanation of the difference. To me, an extra round never hurts...

So, is there some technical explanation? Certainly generally speaking, if John Browning designed it that way, it should stay that way...

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,
John

[wichaka]

Uh......I'm not knocking Applegate, but relying on a mathematical tactical equation of targets vs. rounds for a reason to carry a certain magazine ...........well ......its a bit much for me, especially in a 1911.
Applegates theory is okay, if that scenario plays out exactly.........what are the odds?

I carry 8 rounders because I like the extra round, and the mag still fits flush in the gun........well......except for the base pad.

[thehead7]

Yeah, I tend to agree with you. If they weren't so annoying I'd get 10 rounders...

I was mainly looking for a technical reason to use one over the other, and haven't found one on my own...

[John]

You know what they say about statisticians, right? They take your income and that of a tycoon, add them together, divide it by two and here is an average income. That's what Mr. Applegate's theory reminds me of. I use as many 8 rounders as I can, and when I can I upgrade whatever 7 rounders I have left to 8 rounders. One extra round never hurt anyone.

Rgds

[wichaka]

I've found no 'technical reason. But there are 'functional' reasons. The 7 rounders seem to function more reliably better than 8 rounders, especially mags. from Metalform. The mag bodies from Metalforms are top notch. They are tough.........

I carry Wilson 47D's on duty.........have never had a problem with them. I have some Metalforms that came with my SA guns, but have switched out the guts to Wilson followers and springs to make them 8 rounders. Tuner, don't disown me for that........ If I find Metalfrom bodies, I snatch them up. I've got Wilson 8 round followers in everything, and either the Wilson or Wolff mag springs. Nary a problem..........

I just like the extra round.

[rhtwist]

Can the Wilson followers be used in mags without the removeable baseplate?
TIA

[stans]

8 round magazines do not seem to have the spring pressure for that last round in the mag that the 7 rounders possess. I have had virtually zero problems with 7 round magazines, but 8 rounders will sometimes nose dive the top round and fail to feed the last round, especially after the magazine has been used a while. I will go with 7 rounds of "reliability" over 8 rounds of "maybe" any day of the week.

[thehead7]

Can the Wilson followers be used in mags without the removeable baseplate?
TIA

You should be able to as in order to remove the follower on my wilsons, it has to come out the top. It won't fit through the bottom of the mag...

Should be able to slip it right in...

I'm not completely sold on the plastic follower thing, though, and I might pick up some metal followers to replace the plastic ones in my wilsons...

[rhtwist]

Thanks,
I've used the factory Wilson mags and they have never failed me. They are the 8 rounders (all have the removeable base). I have a number of old Colt mags that could be resprung and I'd like to change them over to the 8 round follower. Was under the impression that they had to come out the bottom. Glad to be wrong. Will give it a go. Take care.

[wichaka]

Yes, the 8 round springs need to kept an eye on. Once you have a failure.........get the spring replaced. I replace them with Wolff. Can't rememeber the exact name of them right now as I don't have the catalog handy. But its an extra power like spring.

[Jammer Six]

I've read a couple threads on magazines, and after a series of broken extractors, I am now firmly in the Metalform camp.

I tracked down the cause as best I could, and it looks to me like it was the extractors climbing the rim with seven round Wilson 47's.

Never again.

You can read what I read here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=108838) and here. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=32155&page=1&pp=10)

Have fun! :cool:

[wichaka]

I've tried a bunch of mags over the years, and have found none better than original Colts. But Metalform is right up there. Like I've said before, the Metalform bodies are nail tough, and the feed lips can take a beating and still feed........ I find some guns are more 'follower' picky than others, I'm guessing that's why Metalform makes a few different styles.

I find most folks pay a zillion bucks for their gun..........yet hate to shell out anything for quality mags. But the fact is, the magazines are part of the whole 1911 functioning picture. Its just a removable firing group part.

[thehead7]

I agree with your confusion at people buying $1200 pistols and $9.00 mags. Personally, though, I will never shop by price again. I bought a Kimber Pistol, which is fine, and wilson combat mags (5 of them), which I am less than impressed with.

You see, I did the Glock thing for some time (G21 with 100+ thousand rounds, and g30 with about 10 thousand rounds). I never put anything into my glocks that wasn't made by glock, including magazines. With my 21 I've had less than six stoppages. With the 30 I think I've had about two (obviously I'm not including failure's to fire with not-so-good ammo).

I've always been a fan of the 1911, though... The feel, the function, and it's just plain sexy. So, after shooting everything I could get my hands on, I bought a Kimber TLE/RLII. I also picked up five wilson combat 8rd stainless mags to go with it. I wouldn't count my stopages in individual stopages but in a percentage (about 20% probably...). Certainly, though, I don't have that many rounds through the weapon. After about 500 stopages greatly reduced. I'm at 700 now, and I think I only had two stopages in the last 100 rounds that I fired... The nature of the stopages is as follows:

Generally speaking, I fire a round, the brass fails to eject, and the brass either ends up clamped up against the barrel hood, or generally pointed back into the chamber with the next round on the feed ramp...

It seems to me that there is a mismatch of some sort here. I don't have this problem with the stock kimber mag. This leads me to believe that there is something not quite right about the wilsons. I'm not sold on the plastic follower, for one. Sure, it looks snazzy, but it's a bit slippery... This would be an issue for the second to last/last round, for sure, however most of my stopages are around mid-magazine.

THe only other thing I can think of is that A) The plastic follower, due to it's increased surface contact against the magazine walls, is binding.... When it lets go, the next round snapps upward and forward, causing a problem. B) The magazine spring is possibly too stiff, causing further problems, or C) perhaps the angle of the follower is off, though it doesn't seem to be, or D) The mouth of the magazine is crimped further forward than my kimber mag... Somehow this might cause a problem? (I can't think of how, though).

Other than that, I really like my wilson mags... uh... they look good, at least...

Until I figure out my issues, I am stuck with relying on my tried, true, and trusty glock (the Ugly thing that it is). If I need to buy $10 mags, I will. If I need to buy $40 mags, I'll do that, too. I think I need to just pick up a couple 1911 mags every time I go someplace and see some I don't have :)

-John

[1911Tuner]

Howdy, thehead,

Your crunched brass...probably on the last round...is an extractor issue.
Probably needs more tension, or it might be rotating...or clocking...in the bore.
It happens on the last round because it doesn't have a round under it to keep it from falling off the breechface. A dead giveaway is seeing the last round get stuffed back into the magazine. If it does that trick, the extractor
has good tension, but it's clocking.

The problem with Wilson magazines isn't that the follower is binding and snapping upward. It's because it's a design that doesn't address the problem of keeping the last round in correct orientation under the inertial recoil forces of the cycle when spring tension is at a minimum. The other problem is that there's not ENOUGH spring tension rather than too much.

The lack of a positive means of keeping the last round in position can be helped by using an 11-pound Wolff spring...I think that they're available for the Wilson-Rogers follower. The spring has to be compatible with the follower. Standard springs won't work. If not, go for 10-pound springs...probably designated as +5% extra power.

Luck!

Tuner

[thehead7]

Tuner,

Thanks for the info. The extractor on this weapon is the "external" tactical extractor... I'm still a bit skeptical about it.

My crunched brass, however, is happening throughout the magazine.

One thing I've thought about with my mags is getting CMC followers and wolf springs (a friend of min says he's had excellent luck with that). I think that might fix me up... At least it'd be worth a try...

Last round getting stuffed back into the magazine? I'm having a hard time picturing that, and I think if that happened to me, I'd call a priest for an excorcism :)

Seriously, though, Thanks a bunch for the input. I'll get my hands on some different mags/springs/et cetera and see how I can iron this out.

Thanks,
John

[johnmac]

I have ordered some Cobramags which are supposed to be the only 1911 mags specifically designed to be 8 round rather than modified to hold 8. They also claim to be engineered to hold the top round higher so as to feed better. I should have them soon and will let you know how they work.

John

[wichaka]

Also if you get any Metalform mags., I highly recommend the flat follower with the dimple.

I've been thru many mags. over the years and there's 2 that have never given me any problems. Metalforms with the flat follower & Wilson 47D's.

I've heard of folks having problems with the Wilsons..........but rarely ever have I heard of a flat follower Metalform causing trouble.

[rhtwist]

Hello Wichaka,
Why do you prefer the flat follower with the dimple. Doesn't the flat follower sometimes bounce against the frame ramp? Or is that just a badly made mag? Just a question? Thanx

[wichaka]

Some of the mags I've seen have a follower that is pretty loose inside the mag body. The Metalforms seem to be a bit more solid, which reduces the bouce you're talking about.

I had a friend who bought some Kimber mags. for his TRP. They have the spilt lip designed follower.........its pretty loose, not a whole lot of support.

Take a true GI mag and a Metalform with the follower I mention..........they are pretty much identical........which means they follow the JMB design. The lower lip of the JMB design, should come to rest on the inside of the mag body, not the feedramp.

Go back and read the transcripts of the evolution of the 1911. Note the changes that were made over the years and why. Very good reading for all 1911 owners. Fast forward 100 years, and you'll discover why the 1911 is getting its bad rap.......makers have gone too far away from the original design to make it a reliable gun that won the U.S. Army test of 6,000 non stop fired rounds.

Also, have ya had a chance to test out that slide & barrel yet? Am interested to see how things go with it on your frame.

[rhtwist]

Hey! Thanks for the info. Read a thread about the dimple, seams to make sense. Basically have only used the Wilson's due to their catalog claims. Must admit that I've never had a problem and they all have the original springs. No haven't tried it yet. Hopefully this weekend. A very nice job if I have not already mentioned it.

[wichaka]

Because of the specs..........or out of spec on guns these days, mags seem to play a more vital role. Not that they never did, but guns are more picky about which mags. you stuff in them lately, and the quality of some mags. has gone downhill............

I've never had a problem with any of my 1911's using Wilsons even though they have that plastic type follower with the trough. But I've heard enough failures from others, that I won't recommend them anymore.

I had some CMC Power Mags. Had some problems with them........sold them. I have 2 Shooting Star mags. that came with my Colt Enhanced model, I've still got them, the follower is flat.........but without the dimple........will be replacing them with a dimpled follower. My other mags are the stock mags that came with my SA's. Built by metalform, but they were 7 round. I personally like the 8 rounders..........but again, I've never had a problem with them.

Would like to hear if anyone has had any problems with the Metalform 8 rounders.

Just like any item on the 1911, thoroughly test it before you choose that gun to save your life. Same with ammo........run a few hundred rounds of whatever 'defense' type ammo you choose to be sure its going to reliable in your gun. Don't want to find that out when its toooooo late.

[1911Tuner]

Howdy Wichaka mah fren!

McCormick Shooting Stars ARE Metalform magazines. Look at the telltale
bumper pad holes in the Metalforms, and take the fugly giganticus pad off the Stars, and compare. They be same-same. :cool:

If your Shooting Stars' cause timing problems due to weak springs, you can turn'em into Powermags with the Wolff +5% X-tra Power spring...OR...order standard Metalform Followers and the Wolff 11-pound spring.

Since the standard Metalform followers usually fall right into the Powermags...I have a strong suspicion that they're Metalforms too...but nobody up there will admit to it. The split, Devel-type followers are the same
for both magazines, and most of the problems associated with your Powermags were probably due to the follower angle. If you'd swapped follwoers with the Stars, the problems woulda probably switched sides on ya.

[Jammer Six]

I'm in the middle of running a group buy from Metalform, and a friend of mine and I ordered 25 "Tuner-ized" mags between us.

The other day, she looked at the one you sent me, dumped all the rounds of it, and looked at the follower.

Then she looked up at me and said "so this is the dimple?"

I said it was, and then she said "dimples go in. This goes out. This is a pimple, not a dimple. Tell 'Tuner."

'Tuner, you've been told. :D

[wichaka]

Mine don't have the bumper pad holes. They're solid on the bottom with the Colt imprint. But they have the M stamped in them as well. The follower says 'Shooting Star', but doesn't have the dimple-pimple.........
The mags that came with my SA's have the holes for the pads.........which I know those are Metalforms.........

Tuner, have you heard anything 'bout Metalforms 8 rounders? I'm thinking about ordering some of their 8 round followers & springs to have on hand.

Still got that mag buy going, Jammer? How much are they?

[Jammer Six]

Still got that mag buy going, Jammer? How much are they?

I'm afraid not, Wichaka.

I put it together before I found your board here, (or right about the same time, anyway) or I would have announced it here, in blatent capitalist fashion. :D

I put the order in two weeks ago, on November 16th.

[wichaka]

Well if there's enough interest here since the thread is going that way, I'll contact the Commandant to see if I can get one going..........

Did you try any of the 8 rounders?

[1911Tuner]

Welllll...You can inform Miz Jammer that there's two sides to that follower.
There's the top side and the bottom side. The manufacturing directives mandate that ...given a location in the X and Y axis: "The follower shall be dimpled" Since the thingie is formed from the bottom side...It's a dimple.

Now...Down at the armory, the ol Gunny and company used to call it a "tit"
but since I didn't wanna get wrong with any of the ladies who visit with us...I
call it by the manufacturin' process. ERRAH!

For yall's information, I talked to the fair Ginny at Metalform the other day when I ordered my followers. She informed me that the Wolff spring upgrade
is only available with the stainless magazines. An order of 40 or more stainless, 7-round magazines with the Wolff upgrade will run 12 bucks 64 centavos a copy...which is a very good deal. Shippin' is one-rate up to
100 magazines at $7.50 and above that, it goes by weight. So...You're lookin' at about 13 dollars per unit for 40 magazines delivered.

[wichaka]

Tuner........'splain the upgrade pleeeeze.

What does it involve (parts differences), and what are the advantages?

Also your thought on the Metalform 8 rounders............

[Jammer Six]

Welllll...You can inform Miz Jammer that there's two sides to that follower.

:eek: Uhm...

Well...

OK...

But...

Wouldn't you rather have me explain it to the woman that made the pimple comment? :D


For yall's information, I talked to the fair Ginny at Metalform the other day when I ordered my followers. She informed me that the Wolff spring upgrade is only available with the stainless magazines.

Could be, it didn't come up. We both ordered the stainless.

She let me order 60-something magazines of all different models, at the 40-200 price.

It's a good deal, other than being a screaming pain in the neck.

[1911Tuner]

Howdy Wichaka,

The upgrade is the Wolff spring. Everything else is the same. Not sure if the
spring upgrade is available with their round followers yet....but rumor has it that it's supposed to be. The standard spring is...okay. They'll do for most
5-inch guns that aren't oversprung...but fall flat in many shorter, faster pistols. The spring upgrade is money well-spent...and cheaper than buying the springs separate and doin' the upgrade yourself.

Metalform's round followers are, IMO, the best of their type, but still lacking in that they don't have a positive stop that the PIMPLED followers provide. They're excellent for use with alloy-framed guns...They just need a little something more. The good news is that I've been playin' with a few,
and I've come up with a way to provide it. When I get it figured out, I'm gonna contact the lads in the design shop at Metalform and see if I can sell'em on the idea. So far, so good. The standard Wolff springs don't work with the round followers...They require a proprietary spring design.

The flat 8-round PIMPLED followers provide a whole new set of problems of their own...mainly due to not havin' sufficient length in the leg to allow the spring the required number of coils and positioning to keep it from rocking forward in the tube...and the PIMPLE makes it even worse when the rim
snags it. Years ago...when I was still tryin' to outsmart ol' John Moses..
I played with that shortened follower in an attempt to come up with a workable 8-round magazine. 10 ruined followers and springs later...I gave up and conceeded to the fact that he really did know more than I did. :rolleyes:

Jammer! You may inform Miz Jammer that I have decided that she is absolutely correct, and I have amended my termininology to reflect that.
In addition to accepting that Browning was smarter than I am...I also learned long long ago that arguing with a lady is a losing proposition. :D

[wichaka]

Okay......I'm now opening the R&D division of Tuner-Wichaka pistolas........

What if ya take a standard 7 round Metalform flat follower with the dimple.......(sorry Miz Jammer, too old to change)........which basically is the JMB design. Shorten it up to allow for the 8th round, but then add a skirt around it.......like the Wilson follower to make it more stable?

I've got the 2 sitting here in front of me now, and it appears that it would work. Although maybe you've tried that already?

[1911Tuner]

Might work, Steve...Give it a whirl and let us know. I never tried it, but there's at least a chance that somebody has. I gave up on 8-round magazines years ago, and bowed to John Moses. Had a tough time admittin' that he was smarter'n me...but I finally saw the light. :D

The main problem with the shortened rear leg is that...when the last round is in feeding position, the leg isn't long enough to have 3 full spring coils against it to nail it to the inside wall of the magazine. One up in the corner at the bend...One at the bottom...and one in between. It's that 3-point support that makes it work...and it's not havin' it that makes most of'em puke.

Wichaka-Tuner...Hmmmm. We might be onto somethin there.
Might call it the Wic-uner DoubleThrowdown 1911 Fightin' Pistol.
Maybe..."The Tu-Aka"
Me'n Old Fuff thought about "The Tuffer 1911" :cool:

Luck!

Standin' by...

[Jammer Six]

Jammer! You may inform Miz Jammer that I have decided that she is absolutely correct, and I have amended my termininology to reflect that.
In addition to accepting that Browning was smarter than I am...I also learned long long ago that arguing with a lady is a losing proposition. :D

Old Man, since you're not paying attention to hints today, I'm now going to hit you between the eyes with a seven round stainless steel Metalform magazine, and then I'm going to stop being cute, and spell it out in plain English! :mad:

WHACK!

There.

Do I have your attention, now? Excellent.

The lady who made that comment isn't my wife, and, therefore, isn't Miz Jammer.

Marines...

Wichaka, will you come here for a moment?

[thehead7]

Okay, so the problem with 8 rd followers being that the back plate of the follower is too short to contact three coils. Perhaps then, this:

We take a well-oversprung spring, heat up the top three coils and compress them such that when the mag spring is fully extended in the magazine (save the space for the last round or so) the back of the shortened follower will be in contact with three coils...

Might indeed be the dumbest idea anyone's heard yet, but hey, sometimes dumb ideas work.

What do ya'll think?

Oorah
Head

[wichaka]

Marines...

Wichaka, will you come here for a moment?


Uh Oh......... :eek:

I'm here.......with a helmet on.........am I in line for the next whack?

[wichaka]

Okay, so the problem with 8 rd followers being that the back plate of the follower is too short to contact three coils. Perhaps then, this:

We take a well-oversprung spring, heat up the top three coils and compress them such that when the mag spring is fully extended in the magazine (save the space for the last round or so) the back of the shortened follower will be in contact with three coils...

Tuner.......you've been messin' around with this awhile.......have you tried it?

I'm going to call Metalform Monday and talk with the technos there and see what I can do about an updated follower.

[Jammer Six]

Uh Oh......... :eek:

I'm here.......with a helmet on.........am I in line for the next whack?

That's what I like to see.

People who can learn from the mistakes of others. :D

If a lady shows up here calling herself "Mad Dog Croft", that's her.

Great lady. Good shot. Wonderful friend.

But she's not Miz Jammer. :cool:

[1911Tuner]

Aha!

Guilty...but it ain't gotta thing to do with bein' a Jarhead.

Since I work actively on three forums, including moderating on two of'em...semi-actively on another one...and monitoring yet another one to keep
my young protege' outta trouble...I have many many questions to answer
daily. I tend to scan through the intros and home in on the subject. An old
habit that I aquired years ago while having to think fast on my feet...To wit:

Take the non-essential information, sh*tcan it, and get to the immediate question at hand. Solve the problem, and move on. Several old saws come to mind to describe this practice.

"Gunnery! Gunnery! Gunnery! All else is twaddle! Hit the target!

"Don't let the BS get in the way of milkin' the cow."

Others too various to list will also apply...

Offer my sincere apologies to Miz Croft...and inform her that I am in no way
blind...Merely focused.
__________________________

The other question...heating and bring the top coils of a spring closer together will accomplish two things...neither of shich will solve the problem of stablizing the follower. It will destroy the temper of the steel, and it won't be a spring any more. Re-tempering it will restore that, but leaves the problem of getting the last round into feed position in time to meet the slide.
Coil springs require a certain length of travel to operate correctly, and it's generally considered to be better to have a long, weak spring than a short
stiff one whenever the spring has a dual function...as a recoil spring does...
or a single function that requires the spring to operate through a fairly long, varied range of motion...such as the magazine spring.

Shortening the distance between the top coils means that you have to lengthen the distance between three other coils somewhere in the stack
in order to maintain tension on the last round, when tension is minimum.
While that may well work, you now likely have too much tension on the
column when the magazine is topped off.

No such thing as a free lunch, I'm afraid. The magazines were designed for 7 rounds. Forcing them to accept an extra half-inch diameter cartridge comes with a price.

Engineers dictum: (Paraphrased)

When you change one thing, you usually have to change three other things to compensate for the improvement.

Cheers!

[wichaka]

Found some scrap metal about the right thickness to make the skirt around the follower. Will break out the gas this afternoon and get ta fabricating.....

[1911Tuner]

Found some scrap metal about the right thickness to make the skirt around the follower. Will break out the gas this afternoon and get ta fabricating.....

Ahhhhhhh. Outstanding! God loves a hard-headed soul. The fact that I'm still alive is the proof! :D

[Spitfire]

Well keep that hard headed attitude Tuner, I'll sit back and learn from the bumps on your noggin hehehe. As a side benefit though you may just make that Tuffer pistol yet.

[1911Tuner]

Well keep that hard headed attitude Tuner, I'll sit back and learn from the bumps on your noggin hehehe. As a side benefit though you may just make that Tuffer pistol yet.

But, of course!

However...

Tuner has many bumps. Which group would you prefer to begin with? :cool:

[Spitfire]

The one that hurts the most.

[1911Tuner]

The one that hurts the most.


Ahhhh. They are all painful grasshopper. Wise wise ancestor Tunefucious
once said: "Traveler who begins journey in middle of intersection not know which forking road to take."

May peace and prosperity be your fate, and remember that the brown dog only howls at the shikepoke when the moon wanes on the Autumnal Equinox.

Nanooo!

[CherryRiver]

Man, I don't know that I can fit into the philosophical zone the 7/8 round magazine thread lofted into, but I do know that there is a definite difference, and it's mechanical.
Short followers won't work as well as long ones. Short ones tip. Good long ones won't.
Tripp-Pattison Research, the makers of Cobra Mags, makes magazine conversion kits that come with unpleasantly long and strong springs and a polymer and stainless steel composite follower that is very deep. The metal part hits the slide stop; the polymer slides on the mag body.
They'll cost a round of capacity in any "over-filled" magazine: a seven-round Officers becomes a six, a GM eight becomes a seven, and even the one ten I tried became a nine.
They're about eight or nine bucks apiece.
I got five and tried them in five different magazines, all of which were in the unused drawer, including a CMC Shooting Star, a worthless Springfield Armory 10-round (used original spring), the ancient Colt magazine that came with my first gun three decades ago, and some other junk.
Every single one of them came back to life in a big way, feeding every single round perfectly in both of the guns I tried them in. The beat-up old Colt one has run hundreds of rounds without hesitation.
I came away converted myself- it's the follower, first, and then the spring.
I know the lips can be bad, but with these T-P kits, it still hasn't mattered.
I'm ordering another set of five just to see what other junky magazines I can resurrect.
Bill

[SMMAssociates]

Bill:

Re the Tripp "upgrades"....

I've got three "off the wall" 7-round mags for my Commander (I inherited this gun, and while I know who owned and carried it, don't know much about how it was set up, etc.). I put the Tripp kits in them as a sort of experiment while burning off some SWC's that didn't want to feed. End of problem!

Unfortunately, one of the three is still a bit prone to FTF's. Gotta hammer on it when I get a chance. The other two will feed about anything I find time to put in 'em. :)

[myanof]

Yes, the 8 round springs need to kept an eye on. Once you have a failure.........get the spring replaced. I replace them with Wolff. Can't rememeber the exact name of them right now as I don't have the catalog handy. But its an extra power like spring.

There was a time when I was trying to make the same decision about mags so I called Wilson and asked one of thier techs. He said the eight rounders are fine as long as you change out the springs at lease once a year. He said they sell hundreds of the 8 round mags to law enfrocement all over the country, but they also sell them the replacement springs as change outs. I have stayed with the Wilson 7 rounders so I don't have to worry about it.

[wichaka]

I've got 3 Wilson 47D 8 rounders that are 12 years old and still have the original spring, and have yet to cause a problem.

Luck of the draw I guess............

[myanof]

The wilson guy might have given me a lawyer answer ;)

[TMII]

The wilson guy might have given me a lawyer answer ;)

Or, a salesman's answer. :rolleyes:

[bea175]

8 round magazines do not seem to have the spring pressure for that last round in the mag that the 7 rounders possess. I have had virtually zero problems with 7 round magazines, but 8 rounders will sometimes nose dive the top round and fail to feed the last round, especially after the magazine has been used a while. I will go with 7 rounds of "reliability" over 8 rounds of "maybe" any day of the week.

I am having the problem you mentioned with my eight round Wilson Magazines, they are nose diving the first and sometimes the second round. These Mag's are only a few months old and just started doing this. I called Wilson and they are sending me two new springs. :(

[Sifu]

Excerpt fro Tripp Research follows:

Whether to load seven or eight rounds into an eight round .45 mag has always been a hot discussion topic. People hold various opinions based on their experiences and theory of mag operation. I too have a position on this topic; however, “Your mileage may vary”.
First, let me say there are some decent 1911 .45 ACP mags out there. Most of them are 7 round capacity in my experience. If 7 round capacity is for you, the best move is to use our 7 round Super Seven upgrade kit in your existing other brand 7 or 8 round mags. Our kits will make them better. But the world does not stand still. Our 8 rounder has evolved to be quite good. If 8 round capacity is for you, the 8 round CobraMag is designed specifically for 8 round capacity.

JMB designed a 7 round mag with a skirted steel follower and a flush welded floor plate. In early IPSC days, Charles Kelsey (deceased) designed and patented a clever collapsible skirtless steel follower which allowed 8 rounds in a flush welded floor plate mag. This extra round was a big deal for competition purposes. Chip McCormick eventually acquired this design and uses it today in his line of mags.

Today, The McCormick and Wilson 8 round mags that I have looked at are what I call “mild” tube length derivatives of the original flush design. These sheet metal tubes are longer than an original flush tube but not by much. By using either skirtless or mini skirted followers and attention to a minimum number of spring coils, these mags will hold 8 rounds and still seat or click in fully loaded on a closed slide. Their base pads add overall length to the mag but do not add additional internal working volume for the tube.

My personal bias is that these are essentially 7 round tubes massaged to hold 8 rounds. Based on my experiences, I loaded 7 rounds when I have used these designs because sometimes the top round misbehaved when loaded to 8 rounds. Other times, a full 8 rounds behaved fine. I think this is a situation where the shooter decides for himself and his particular pistol (s) by range testing.

The only true 8 round .45 mag, in my technical opinion, is the CobraMag A8-MG. It has enough tube volume for a fully skirted follower and 13 coils of .049 diameter spring. The stick out past the frame is about the same as a Wilson or McCormick.

[1911Tuner]

Yeah...I tested and evaluated a pair of brand-new Tripp Cobras on request from a dealer. In 8 known reliable pistols, they fell flat on their fanged faces in 3 of'em...and failed to lock the slide in 5. Color me less than impressed... :rolleyes:

[SMMAssociates]

Tuner:

Strictly IMHO, the Tripp "upgrade kit", in some no-name magazines, seemed to work fine for me, and (if you remember) allowed my Commander to feed some conical ball semi-wadcutters (not the ashtrays - haven't tried those).

'Bout twice the price of a new, heavy, spring, but they throw in a nice plastic follower with a metal insert for engagement with the slide stop.

I have no experience with their magazines, though, so I'll defer to your judgement there.

Regards,

[Rainman 92019]

An extra round is worth it.

The problem for me arises when I insert an 8-round Wilson 47D magazine into a weapon with a round in the pipe...the magazine meets significant resistance and has resulted in feeding issues. I want 9 rounds but 8 feed reliably. With the Wilson's I start with a magazine of 8 and put the weapon into battery.

I am currently experimenting with CMC mags but have nothing to share yet.

[Dwolf00]

I have about a dozen 47Ds that have been overall the most reliable 1911 mags for my various 1911s by various makers. I have Powermags that I converted to Wilsons. I got tired of the CMC followers popping out when I would reload and the mag would hit the ground. I like the Tripp mag, but some of my guns haven't liked it. I won't say it's all their mags because I only have one Tripp mag to judge from. My Novak mag has been reliable thus far, but I really don't have that many rounds through it yet. My recommendation is for Wilson 47Ds based on my own experiences with their reliablity in my guns.

[RickB]

Before I started shooting IPSC, I shopped around for 8-round mags before investing in a half-dozen of any particular brand. This was about ten years ago. I bought a Wilson and a Shooting Star. The Wilson mags have been redesigned, at least once, since then. The Wilson mag of that time had the molded plastic follower, and right in the middle was a small ball bearing, playing the role of the dimple (I also bought a Mag Pac 8-rounder, which had the same follower as the Wilson, in a very thick, strong tube; what happened to them?). Apparently, the newer Wilsons don't have the that feature; why not? The Shooting Star and Wilson mags both fed fine in my G.I. Colt, but the Wilson didn't lock the slide, so I bought a half-dozen Shooting Stars (and put a SS conversion kit in the Mag Pac tube). I now have two Power 8s, five Power 10s, three stainless Shooting Star 8s, and one blue SS 8. I also have two blue Colt "factory" 8-rounders with SS followers. They all work great. I've replaced the springs two or three times on the oldest 8-rounders, but I've never had any problems loading or reloading, never a problem feeding the first, or last, round. They work great, all the time. They can also be stripped without tools, which is great when the mag is full of mud or sand, as they often are at the range. I can't imagine a 7-rounder working better than all the time, so I use nothing but 8s in my 5" guns. In my Commander and Detonics Combat Master, I use 7s - Metalforms with the flat, dimpled G.I. follower - as in my experience, there's not enough spring in an 8-rounder to keep up with the shorter/faster cycling guns.
Of course, if I'd had a couple of bad experiences with any mag, I'd be shopping for something better. I bought some 9-round Shooting Star 10mm mags, and won't use them any more. They had a nasty habit of allowing the top round to squirt out during reloads, resulting in a round floating between the mag and the slide (I've seen a couple of ADs resulting from that particular situation), and a friend yanked the base plate off of one, pulling it from a mag pouch. So, I stick with my Mec-Gar and Colt 8-rounders.

[2400]

I was mainly looking for a technical reason to use one over the other, and haven't found one on my own...

Because you can. :D



I've tried a lot of 7, 8 and 10 round mags over the years. For me based on my experience with my guns, the Wilson 47D's have been the best and most consistant mags. I've shot over 50K rounds through them without any feed problems. I have replaced the springs as part of my routine maintainance.