change my nork's with chip mccormick hammer and sear

[saki]

sirs, i'm planning to change the hammer and sear on my norinco 1911 with chip mccormick's hammer and sear? would it be perfectly fit, as drop in, without help from the gunsmith? do i also need to replace the hammer strut? thanks so much! i would appreciate your replies. more power...

[wichaka]

If your gun has a standard grip safety (Gov. style), and the hammer is round (Commander style), then you'll need to change out the grip safety to allow the hammer to fully cock.

As for drop in, nothing really is. But if they are a "drop-in" set, then they have a better chance of dropping in.

If they are not a 'drop-in" set, then they will need to be fitted, along with the thumb safety. As its fit relys on the sear for that. most of the time.......new sear, means new safety, but not always. I've changed some out and used the same safety with perfect fit. You'll just have to see how yours pans out.

No, you shouldn't have to change out the strut.........

[1911Tuner]

Uh..What'll ya take for that hammer? :D

[saki]

If your gun has a standard grip safety (Gov. style), and the hammer is round (Commander style), then you'll need to change out the grip safety to allow the hammer to fully cock.

As for drop in, nothing really is. But if they are a "drop-in" set, then they have a better chance of dropping in.

If they are not a 'drop-in" set, then they will need to be fitted, along with the thumb safety. As its fit relys on the sear for that. most of the time.......new sear, means new safety, but not always. I've changed some out and used the same safety with perfect fit. You'll just have to see how yours pans out.

No, you shouldn't have to change out the strut.........

sir i got a norinco 1911 factory enhanced model, it has already a combat hammer and an extended beaver tail. i'll change the hammer for a better look purposes, the hammer that goes with it though a combat style is not that pretty. yes i think it's a drop-in set, found it in brownell's web page. i'll also change the trigger and thumb safety (i'm a lefty) with chip mccormick. i'll change also the sights with set of novak's, front with fiber optic and the rear low mount, wide notch, two white dot. how's that sir? thanks so much for reply sir.

[saki]

Uh..What'll ya take for that hammer? :D

sir, i cant understand exactly what you mean, is there something wrong with mccormick's hammer? i chose it because it's cheaper and it was also an advice from our gunsmith here. hope i'm not wrong since my wife has already order it for me at brownells. please help me with this sir. i'll appreciate your comment and suggestion.

[Hawkmoon]

This is the McCormick hammer with the elongated skeleton loop, that sells for $24.95, and the matching sear for $11.95?

Yeah, there's something wrong with it. I put that set into a Caspian frame, and it locked up the hammer any time I put it on half cock. I was able to make it work with some judicious filing, but out of the box it ain't worth the powder to blow it up.

I'd recommend Wilson's "value line" hammer and sear instead. It's about the same price, but you have a better chance that it might work when installed.

[John]

We learn from our experiences, don't we Hawk?

:lm:

[1911Tuner]

sir, i cant understand exactly what you mean, is there something wrong with mccormick's hammer? i chose it because it's cheaper and it was also an advice from our gunsmith here. hope i'm not wrong since my wife has already order it for me at brownells. please help me with this sir. i'll appreciate your comment and suggestion.

"What'll ya take for" ...is slang for I wanna buy it or trade ya somethin' for it.

Nah. I just like Norinco's steel, and the fact that it's a ring-type hammer is a plus. Don't care if it's not pretty.

Kinda like to have the thumb safety too...What'll ya take for it?

Only people that call me "sir" are used car salesmen and cops that just pulled me over for speedin'. Makes me nervous... :D

[saki]

This is the McCormick hammer with the elongated skeleton loop, that sells for $24.95, and the matching sear for $11.95?

Yeah, there's something wrong with it. I put that set into a Caspian frame, and it locked up the hammer any time I put it on half cock. I was able to make it work with some judicious filing, but out of the box it ain't worth the powder to blow it up.

I'd recommend Wilson's "value line" hammer and sear instead. It's about the same price, but you have a better chance that it might work when installed.

how about it's reliability (wilson value line)
? since it's a value package, do you think it has good quality too?

[saki]

"What'll ya take for" ...is slang for I wanna buy it or trade ya somethin' for it.

Nah. I just like Norinco's steel, and the fact that it's a ring-type hammer is a plus. Don't care if it's not pretty.

Kinda like to have the thumb safety too...What'll ya take for it?

Only people that call me "sir" are used car salesmen and cops that just pulled me over for speedin'. Makes me nervous... :D

now i'm just more confuse, i mean about changing the hammer. i really have to change the thumb safety since i'm a lefty, if there's a way i can give it to you. probably i'll take your advice, i'll retain the hammer. how about the trigger sir? it's some kind'a combat trigger with holes on the pad though no over-travel adjustment. well it's so happened that i'm a cop, that would explain why i always address sir.

[pingwax]

Hi Saki,

I am trying to learn about my 1911, so everything I am doing is new to me.

I recently installed a kit from cylinder & slide into my Springfield Armory milspec. The kit included the GI style hammer, sear, disconnector, main spring and sear spring.

As the other guys have mentioned (and I am learning first hand), the kit provided is "drop in" in the sense that the sear and hammer are already mated to each other, but it does not mean that no work needs to be done. The thumb safety that came with my gun did not work at all. Rather than modify any of the original parts that came with my gun, I purchased a new one, which also had to be modified to work.

This 1911 is one that I bought a few years ago and ended up not shooting much due to reliability problems. For me, it is an opportunity to learn about the 1911. I am not modifying a gun that I have an immediate need for (including recreation), so I am able to take my time, screw up some parts and try again. Based on how much I have learned with this very basic install, I would suggest that anybody with my level of experience (i.e. none) who is doing similar work with the expectation of being able to immediately install a kit and go shoot, should reconsider doing it themselves.

[saki]

Hi Saki,

I am trying to learn about my 1911, so everything I am doing is new to me.

I recently installed a kit from cylinder & slide into my Springfield Armory milspec. The kit included the GI style hammer, sear, disconnector, main spring and sear spring.

As the other guys have mentioned (and I am learning first hand), the kit provided is "drop in" in the sense that the sear and hammer are already mated to each other, but it does not mean that no work needs to be done. The thumb safety that came with my gun did not work at all. Rather than modify any of the original parts that came with my gun, I purchased a new one, which also had to be modified to work.

This 1911 is one that I bought a few years ago and ended up not shooting much due to reliability problems. For me, it is an opportunity to learn about the 1911. I am not modifying a gun that I have an immediate need for (including recreation), so I am able to take my time, screw up some parts and try again. Based on how much I have learned with this very basic install, I would suggest that anybody with my level of experience (i.e. none) who is doing similar work with the expectation of being able to immediately install a kit and go shoot, should reconsider doing it themselves.

hi there pingwax,

thanks for you comments and suggestions. actually i bought the norinco 1911 because of the good reviews i heard and read about it, aside from it's affordable price compare to other brands which includes our very own philippine made, armscor and rock island though they're very competitive already when it comes to reliability. my main two purposes of buying another pistol (this is my third aside from the guns i sold before) are: first, for self protection, as well as a necessity in performing my duty as a cop, and second as a gun enthusiast. when i buy a gun it's more of necessity than just a hobby, i have to tune up a gun (in the most affordable way possible because of the budget issue), let's say the norinco, because it has to be reliable when i need it not only on the shooting range but most especially on my day to day activities. i don't buy it just to put it in my locker and shoot it when i feel like it. the saying "it's better that i have it when i don't need it, rather than i don't have it when i need it" wont be applicable when what i have cant be used when i need it. we can do it ourselves, tuning up our own gun, and this is the very good thing of having a forum like this, we're being guided and learn lessons in doing such, but there are things that we can do but there are a lot of things that only gunsmiths can do. more power...

[pingwax]

i don't buy it just to put it in my locker and shoot it when i feel like it

I definately can appreciate that. I hope my post didn't sound discouraging; it was intended more as a description of my experience for anybody else who reads this thread looking for input. My experience is that "drop in" does not mean easy, simple, reliable or safe (the paramount concern) necesarily, which I didn't realize when I first bought my kit. I don't mean to say it can't be done or shouldn't be done, just that it probably won't provide instant gratification.

Good luck with your gun!

[saki]

I definately can appreciate that. I hope my post didn't sound discouraging; it was intended more as a description of my experience for anybody else who reads this thread looking for input. My experience is that "drop in" does not mean easy, simple, reliable or safe (the paramount concern) necesarily, which I didn't realize when I first bought my kit. I don't mean to say it can't be done or shouldn't be done, just that it probably won't provide instant gratification.

Good luck with your gun!

thanks pingwax! i've experience that also, the so called drop-in doesn't really mean no more retouch or so, experience it with my own para when i installed a so called drop-in magwell. actually it's really very interesting and exciting when we try to fix or tune our own gun, probably not only in guns, but sometimes it brings more harm than good. yet it's good that there are people here who are really so willing to help.

[wichaka]

saki, been building & tuning 1911's for L.E. Personnel (Cops) for many years........so I can relate to you brother.

McCormick stuff years ago were pretty good quality, as of the last 10 or so.......they have been questionable.

The hammers & sears you mention from McCormick and Wilson are made from a process called MIM, Metal Injected Molded. Which means they inject metal into a mold and you get the part made.

If done properly, not bad.......problem is most of the parts made are contracted out and there's little or no quality control, so there are some MIM parts out there that have been failing. Most are made over in India now........yes, even Kimber stuff is farmed out. Got that from the horses mouth.

So when talking about hammers & sears, which are two of the most high stressed small parts in a 1911..........you can see where this is going.

I would never put a MIM part into a 1911 that would be for duty use. I don't trust them that much to stake mine or someone else's life.
As for the safety, McCormick had the same problem. I installed one for a fellow Officer, and it broke within 3 days, it was his duty gun..........won't make that mistake again. Called mcCormick, said they we're not going to make anymore until they got their MIM problem figured out. Better safe than sorry.........just stay away from the stuff.

You may pay more for other parts, but they are much better quality, and that extra money is worth the peice of mind that comes with it.

If you're looking for a drop in system......look at Cylinder & Slide. If you're doing the work yourself, look at Ed Brown's Hardcore Barstock Hammers, or Nowlin's, or Cylinder & Slide's Hammers. For a sear, for me there's only one.......Nowlin's Pro Match.
As for the safety.......I'd go with the type that uses the hammmer pin to hold the right side from coming off.

These are my opinions based on experience, but you'll get others.......

As for the hammer & sear that comes with your Nork.........those are made better than any McCormick or Wilson value line hammer could ever hope to be. Sorry Tuner......

Hope this helps.

[Hawkmoon]

how about it's reliability (wilson value line)
? since it's a value package, do you think it has good quality too?
I would say that, in the U.S. today, the Wilson name is considered "better" than Chip McCormick. As to these particular parts, they sell for within a couple of dollars of each other. Wilson's premium hammer costs twice as much as the "value line" hammer, which tells me that the premium hammer is machined from bar stock and the value line hammer is MIM. And I am certain that the McCormick is MIM as well.

Since you have already ordered it, try it. If you have a problem with it, send me a PM and I'll explain what I had to do to correct it. Perhaps in your frame there won't be a problem.

[saki]

saki, been building & tuning 1911's for L.E. Personnel (Cops) for many years........so I can relate to you brother.

McCormick stuff years ago were pretty good quality, as of the last 10 or so.......they have been questionable.

The hammers & sears you mention from McCormick and Wilson are made from a process called MIM, Metal Injected Molded. Which means they inject metal into a mold and you get the part made.

If done properly, not bad.......problem is most of the parts made are contracted out and there's little or no quality control, so there are some MIM parts out there that have been failing. Most are made over in India now........yes, even Kimber stuff is farmed out. Got that from the horses mouth.

So when talking about hammers & sears, which are two of the most high stressed small parts in a 1911..........you can see where this is going.

I would never put a MIM part into a 1911 that would be for duty use. I don't trust them that much to stake mine or someone else's life.
As for the safety, McCormick had the same problem. I installed one for a fellow Officer, and it broke within 3 days, it was his duty gun..........won't make that mistake again. Called mcCormick, said they we're not going to make anymore until they got their MIM problem figured out. Better safe than sorry.........just stay away from the stuff.

You may pay more for other parts, but they are much better quality, and that extra money is worth the peice of mind that comes with it.

If you're looking for a drop in system......look at Cylinder & Slide. If you're doing the work yourself, look at Ed Brown's Hardcore Barstock Hammers, or Nowlin's, or Cylinder & Slide's Hammers. For a sear, for me there's only one.......Nowlin's Pro Match.
As for the safety.......I'd go with the type that uses the hammmer pin to hold the right side from coming off.

These are my opinions based on experience, but you'll get others.......

As for the hammer & sear that comes with your Nork.........those are made better than any McCormick or Wilson value line hammer could ever hope to be. Sorry Tuner......

Hope this helps.

sir thank you so much for this information, i really need this hope my wife hasn't order it yet, i've been changing over and over for the parts i needed. hope she'll be patient with me. actually just last nigth changed it already, instead of getting the sear change it with egw fps. thanks so much again sir, i'll try to email my wife and try to change the hammer with a better one.

[saki]

I would say that, in the U.S. today, the Wilson name is considered "better" than Chip McCormick. As to these particular parts, they sell for within a couple of dollars of each other. Wilson's premium hammer costs twice as much as the "value line" hammer, which tells me that the premium hammer is machined from bar stock and the value line hammer is MIM. And I am certain that the McCormick is MIM as well.

Since you have already ordered it, try it. If you have a problem with it, send me a PM and I'll explain what I had to do to correct it. Perhaps in your frame there won't be a problem.

thanks so much sir. i would keep you posted.

[saki]

i've decided to retain the hammer, sear and grip safety as well. i was able to change my order of ambi safety from chip mccormick to ed brown tactical ambi safety. would change my trigger with chip mccormick lightweight, hope this one is good (any comment on this sir?). aside from the over travel adjustment that i need, i like how it looks also. thanks so much for all your concern.

[wichaka]

McCormick triggers are about the only thing I use of theirs. They are good, just either make sure you get the screw adjusted properly.......or just take it out, and use it that way.

[1911Tuner]

*sigh*

Okay...What'll ya take for the thumb safety? ;)

[saki]

*sigh*

Okay...What'll ya take for the thumb safety? ;)

good news for you tuner, i've decided to replace my hammer with nowlin pro match, thumb safety and trigger with with mccormick. up to you what can you offer with the spare norinco parts, beside how can i send it to you? i have also here an original thumb safety of colt series 80 in case you're interested too. actually i just want to have an egw fps which you've already beveled for my norinco. how's that?

[1911Tuner]

Aha! Now we're gettin' somewhere! :cool:

Did I send you the firing pin stop? I'll need an address.

Would like to have the Colt thumb safety too...and I'll do ya better than just a firing pin stop for all that stuff. Make up a list of spare parts you need or may need, and I'll put a little package together...or, if you're not sure, I'll put select a few things that you'll most likely need at some point...and I'll include the radiused, pre-fitted stop.

I have Wolff GM-length 16-pound springs. Will clip to Commander length.
Advise me if you intend to use a shock buffer, since that will determine how many coils in the spring. I think I have a few firing pin springs on hand. Spare mainsprings too. A hammer strut and sear spring in the parts box wouldn't hurt. Seen one Norinco strut break, so it can happen...though it took about 30,000 rounds to do it.

Best to send it regular Air Mail, and in a padded envelope if you can get one. If not, I'll include one in the package. All ya gotta do is address it, stamp it, and send it on its way.

PM me so we can exchange mailing information.

By the way...My brother-in-law married a gal from Manila when he was in the Navy. She tried to teach me Tagalog...but it just didn't take. :D

[saki]

Aha! Now we're gettin' somewhere! :cool:

Did I send you the firing pin stop? I'll need an address.

Would like to have the Colt thumb safety too...and I'll do ya better than just a firing pin stop for all that stuff. Make up a list of spare parts you need or may need, and I'll put a little package together...or, if you're not sure, I'll put select a few things that you'll most likely need at some point...and I'll include the radiused, pre-fitted stop.

I have Wolff GM-length 16-pound springs. Will clip to Commander length.
Advise me if you intend to use a shock buffer, since that will determine how many coils in the spring. I think I have a few firing pin springs on hand. Spare mainsprings too. A hammer strut and sear spring in the parts box wouldn't hurt. Seen one Norinco strut break, so it can happen...though it took about 30,000 rounds to do it.

Best to send it regular Air Mail, and in a padded envelope if you can get one. If not, I'll include one in the package. All ya gotta do is address it, stamp it, and send it on its way.

PM me so we can exchange mailing information.

By the way...My brother-in-law married a gal from Manila when he was in the Navy. She tried to teach me Tagalog...but it just didn't take. :D

sure yeah! i don't wanna take advantage of your kindess, but just in case you have an extra mag well or a recoil spring rod, i'd appreciate it. but in case there's none and that's too much for you, no problemo i'd much appreciate whatever you'll offer. i'm using shock buff in range and game but not on carry , as i learned from one of the forums here. i'll send you pm for my mailing address. i'll send you the stuff as soon as i have replaced my parts in my norks together with the thumb safety of colt'80. thanks so much tuner.

[saki]

I have Wolff GM-length 16-pound springs. Will clip to Commander length.
Advise me if you intend to use a shock buffer, since that will determine how many coils in the spring. I think I have a few firing pin springs on hand. Spare mainsprings too. A hammer strut and sear spring in the parts box wouldn't hurt. Seen one Norinco strut break, so it can happen...though it took about 30,000 rounds to do it.:D

tuner sir, just to make it clear, my nork is a standard 5" government model not the commander model. thanks again sir.

[1911Tuner]

tuner sir, just to make it clear, my nork is a standard 5" government model not the commander model. thanks again sir.

Saki...Ya gotta stop callin' me "sir." Gives me the willies... :D

I'll go put your package together this afternoon. ;)

[bearboy]

I have used mccormick hammer sear and trigger in caspian, essex and kimber frames with no problems.Almost every safety i have installed required fitting regardless of brand.

[saki]

I have used mccormick hammer sear and trigger in caspian, essex and kimber frames with no problems.Almost every safety i have installed required fitting regardless of brand.

thanks so much bearboy. still trying to decide, the nowlin pro hammer is out of stock at brownells. considering the experience of wichika, i think almost all branded guns and gunspart have experiences of breakage on their products due to some overlooked qc and/or some other reasons.

[saki]

Saki...Ya gotta stop callin' me "sir." Gives me the willies... :D

I'll go put your package together this afternoon. ;)

ok tuner. you're the mhan. i'll be looking forward to that. as of now the only thing in my hand for you is the original thumb sefety of colt markIV series 80, but you can count on me as soon as i replaced my parts i'll send it to you. thanks so much.

[John]

Hey Saki, do yourself a favor. Get the Brown Hardcore hammer. You won't regret it.