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Bev
21st June 2006, 12:57
I'm hoping someone can help me in understanding this passage from PLOTS TO RESCUE THE CZAR by Shay McNeal.

In the book she claims that she tracked down the weapon used by Jacob Yurovsky to kill Nicholas II. Here is the particular passage:

"the gun was a Colt .45. - it's serial number was 71905. In tracking down the the weapon I obtained additional information from the Colt Company historian Kathleen Holt. 'If the serial number 71905 was followed by a letter then the gun would have been part of a shipment to Russia, possibly through France. ' But if the there was no serial number followed by a letter, then the history of Yurovsky's gun woud be quite different. Colt's archives indicate that the gun model 1911 s/n 71905 (without any letter tagged on at the end) was manufactured in 1914 and was sold to the U.S. government. It was delivered to the ordnance officer at Ft. Thomas Kentucky on 30,April 1914, one of 150 weapons received." (p.164.)

Now, in my opinion, this borders on the ridiculous, and adds a sinister, conspiracy spin to this gun. How could a gun issued to an officer in Ft. Thomas, KY, in 1914, end up in Ekaterinburg, RU in 1918? I asked Sam Lisker of Coltautos.com who was kind enough to answer my e-mail, (and with the fact in mind that his site is a business site, I didn't want to bust his chops wth more questions) in which he told me that the Colt .45 1911 S/N 71905 (with a "C" prefix, not a suffix) was part of a government shipment to Russia from 1914. This seems to be a more likely and reasonable explanation, but others insist that this particular gun with this particular S/N was issued to a particular officer at Ft. Thomas. My question is this; did every single gun manufactured at that time have its own serial number - e.g., would the next gun manufactured have s/n 71906? I would really appreciate the help, thanks!

John
21st June 2006, 14:09
Well, if the pistol had a C prefix, it was a commercial model made in 1916. This could have ended up in Russia and used for the above mentioned killing. As you say, I sincerely doubt that a pistol which was delivered to the US Government would end up in Russia, but of course, strangest things have happened in this world.

Bev
21st June 2006, 16:16
Thanks for your reply. Would you know if the guns were numbered sequentially?

John
21st June 2006, 16:26
As far as I know, there were two different numberings, one for the Commercial pistols and one for the Government purchased ones. They were both sequential, at least back in WWI era.

exitwounds
22nd June 2006, 15:22
A Russian order 1911 would have a C prefix and a distguishing Russian inscription on the left side of the frame which translates to "English Order". The Russian contract pistols were serial numbered between C23000 and C89000, not all inclusive. The first shipment was in Feb. 1916 and the last in Jan. 1917. The pistol was not manufactured until 1916, therefore could not have been issued in 1914. 71906 is a 1914 mfg. USGI 1911 and should have the No prefix (with the o underlined).

Bev
23rd June 2006, 13:47
You guys are great! Thanks.

And Exitwounds, my son is with the 478th Eng. Bn - Army Reserves

mayagrafix
24th June 2006, 08:53
Have you considered the ill fated U.S. Polar Bear Expedition which was a contingent of 5,000 U.S. troops that landed in north Russia and fought the Bolshevik forces during the period of September 1918 through July 1919.

The USGI .45 in question could have been "captured" during this time.

Old Trooper
30th June 2006, 07:16
Does anyone have any idea on how to track how an M1911A1 (Martially marked) left the Government inventory and entered the civilian populace??

I would love to find out if the one I have was sold, "lost" or, heaven forbid, "stolen".

Evidently how it entered the market has a direct bearing on re-importation.

bgiven
30th June 2006, 21:28
71905.....??? ;)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i284/bobgiven/FAC201.jpg


Just kidding... mine is a little earlier in the contract.

Old Trooper
1st July 2006, 00:35
Nice 1911! My first M1911 was 441401! The one in question is significantly newer. A June 1943 A1. What concerns me are markings on it that show that it still belonged to the Government long after they suspended any sales (rebuilt in Anniston 6 -75). I know where it came from and when (gift to Iraq during Iran - Iraq war, 1985), but what happens if someone decides that this one is not on the market legally? Here in Iraq those little issues most likely will not come up, but it has a direct bearing on any remote chance on re-importation.

Knoxville? We are almost cousins then, grew up in Maggie Valley, NC a very long time ago!

bgiven
1st July 2006, 07:19
Yup....Knoxville now.... as you can see by my flag, grew up in Edmonton, Alberta CANADA.....

By the way..... Happy Birthday CANADA ..... July 1, 1867. :)