Changing Grip Safety

[hotrodford]

I have a 1991A1 and want to swap out the grip safety to the beavertail style. What is involved in doing this, and can it be done in house.....

Also what is involved in changing out the hammer to a Commander style hammer? Can this also be done in house as well..

Thanks,

Kyle

[SMMAssociates]

Kyle:

(Somebody who really knows will be along shortly....)

Can't speak for the 1991A1, but I just screwed up trying to replace the beavertail on a Combat Commander a few weeks ago. I ended up paying a qualified friend to do it....

(And paying for a second "drop in" beavertail....)

However, if you're willing to trash one, which you might, and keep your filing down to about half the thickness of the paint, it's probably worth a try. If I could have seen what I was doing, it would have been trivial - as it turned out, the thing almost worked (I think I already had taken too much off) and then I decided to help that. No more grip safety.... My file was too aggressive :eek: .

(I wasn't here, I didn't say this, but if you don't care if the grip safety works or not, at least with the original 1911 innards, there's nothing to it. If you screw up, you lose the grip safety, but cosmetically it's fine, and the beavertail works anyway in terms of "hold". Since the Commander is a "carry" weapon for me, I couldn't leave it that way. :cool: )

When buying the replacement beavertail, be sure to get one that doesn't require frame cutting unless you're up to that. You can get templates and tools for that purpose, but the drop-ins I've seen thus far (not many) are fine without doing any of that, including the two I bought for my Commander. Doesn't seem necessary unless the resulting hold doesn't do it for you.

There are stripdown instructions here someplace that will help for a 1911, and should be close enough for the newer model, but it amounts to cocking the hammer and gently working the safety lever out the side of the gun. At that point, you gently de-cock the weapon, and then pop out the mainspring pin, releasing the mainspring housing. The beavertail is now free for the swapping. Plan on doing this a few times.... (When re-assembling, don't put the mainspring back until you've got the safety in place and can drop the hammer gently on the frame. There's almost no tension on the mainspring at that point, and it almost drops in.)

While you've got the safety lever out, the hammer pin can be removed - I think you can use the safety lever's pin as a punch - and the hammer comes out. Lotsa little parts there, but that's about all there is to that.

Short answer, then, is to have a good gunsmith handy just in case, and look at the stripdown instructions, but it's not rocket science. DO NOT screw around with the sear!

(The beavertail rests on it, but there's no risk to the sear if you're gentle in trying to get things back together, and only remove metal from the beavertail.)

I don't know what, if any, fitting is required to swap a hammer.

[stumbler]

Being a "Kitchen Gunsmith", may I recommend that you go to www.brownells.com (http://www.brownells.com) first.


There I would purchase the following:

Kuhnhausen's Book of the 1911 (Vol I and II)

A "drop-in" grip safety and a "drop-in" commander hammer (plus pin and strut) (look at Nowlin's as a start)

These can be done by a person who is willing to understand the safeties involved with the 1911a1 (listed in the book) and not willing to ruin a frame on the first go around.

As you build confidence, the you can progress from there. Fitting a non "drop in" Grip Safety does involve modifying the frame.

(as a side note: Keep the number to a gunsmith handy. As you do things, allow the gunsmith to check your progress)

Be careful, be patient, and remember that while it is easy to remove metal, it is hard to put back on.

[jerryd]

Put a wilson drop in safety in my commander and also my officers with now problems. Just read the instructions, it involves filing the bar , not difficult just take your time!

[gottripletsNC]

Kyle:


(The beavertail rests on it, but there's no risk to the sear if you're gentle in trying to get things back together, and only remove metal from the beavertail.)

I don't know what, if any, fitting is required to swap a hammer.

Never saw where the grip safety rests on the sear, only thing I knew of where the grip safety rested on was the sear spring, and the trigger assembly.

Fitting a hammer can be tricky, not to the frame, but to the sear, I was just nuts and curious enough to try it, screwed up one, and almost did another, so if you aren't careful, or not sure about yourself, then I would get someone to do it for you...

As far as the grip safety, just remember what stumbler said, better to not take off enough than too much, can always take off more, can never put it back on ....

[SMMAssociates]

Never saw where the grip safety rests on the sear, only thing I knew of where the grip safety rested on was the sear spring, and the trigger assembly. The tip of the grip safety engages something :) . It keeps the trigger from doing it's job anyway.... You're right, though - it's the back end of the trigger....

Thanks for the info on the hammer - I've not thought about swapping one of those. Yet.... (My Commander has the usual bobbed hammer - it's fine.)

Regards,

[care-less]

I don't think that the drop in beavertails really do anything except cosmetically if thats the look you like. I guess they will also help hammer bite issues which I can't understand at all; and cannot even fathom how someone is holding a gun to get bit. Aside from that; the purpose of the high beavertail is to get the gun to sit lower in your hand for more control. In order to get that effect; you must have the frame cut to fit a beavertail by hand. Those will indeed let the pistol sit down in the hand better. A drop in one that is fitted to the frame where the frame itself is not touched; won't. It is a look cool cosmetic effect only.

[SMMAssociates]

I don't think that the drop in beavertails really do anything except cosmetically if thats the look you like. I guess they will also help hammer bite issues which I can't understand at all; and cannot even fathom how someone is holding a gun to get bit. Aside from that; the purpose of the high beavertail is to get the gun to sit lower in your hand for more control. In order to get that effect; you must have the frame cut to fit a beavertail by hand. Those will indeed let the pistol sit down in the hand better. A drop in one that is fitted to the frame where the frame itself is not touched; won't. It is a look cool cosmetic effect only. Perhaps it's me, but in alternately firing my usual range buddy's full sized 1911 with a drop-in and my all-steel Commander without it, I found that the 1911 was a LOT more comfortable to shoot. No hammer bite from the Commander - it's the rounded type - but the stock grip safety eats into the web of my hand. A drop-in cured that nicely. (There's only a slight difference in weight - the Commander's perceived recoil is a tad more.)

I'm not sure it has a positive effect on the "hold" issues - it's much harder to hold it too far up and hurt yourself - but the Commander is a lot more fun to shoot with the drop-in. A good "frame cut" beavertail probably would do something for the "hold" problems. All this one does is is fix the bite from the original grip safety.

In my case, "hold" isn't a problem - it seems to be where I need it. YMMV. I haven't had a chance to let my daughter try it - she's very petite, and may have "hold" issues with this one, but I think she fired my buddy's 1911 with it's beavertail without problems. His hands aren't a lot bigger than hers.

I don't consider my hands as anything extraordinary in size, but the brick-shaped handle of my Tac-Four - the avatar you're seeing - with an arched mainspring housing and somewhat oversized Pearce grips fits my hands quite well.

My late father was a Dentist. He spent his professional life working teeth out of jaws with pliers & such. His right hand was big enough to palm that Para! :D

Having rambled on like this, what it seems to boil down to is that if a modification doesn't reduce safety, and can be removed in a few minutes, it shouldn't be a problem. Once you start sawing the frame, though....

Regards,

[gottripletsNC]

the standard spec grip safety has a squared edge on the bottom, and is not necessarily uncomfortable, but with me I have big hands so the safety seats pretty deep into the spot between thumb and forefinger. I also shoot with a loose hand and the gun jars a little when I fire and will scrape my hand, and after MANY rounds its gets a little painful.
the other thing with the beavertail at least with me was that the BT allowed the gun to sit lower in my grip hence the gun was more in line with my arm which allowed closer tolerances on my groupings with free hand shooting. So there is more to it than looks.
at least for me.
anybody else go with that?

As for "drop-in" I haven't seen a drop in part yet that just dropped in

[PaulX608]

Yeah, Gott, I also found that with my ham-hands, I got a bit abraded by the squared edges on the stock grip safety. I now put a drop of oil on that spot when I go to the range, and have had no trouble since. I may eventually go to a different saefty, but I relly like the stock appearance of the original. And it works, which makes me reluctant to fix it.

[jerryd]

Just found the instructions for the grip safety, you have to file the bar that contacts the trigger bow on 3 different edges. Go slow, dont remove too much and and it works fine. Took me about 15 min actual fileing and trial fitting, but it did drop in and the safety works as it should. The space between the frame and safety is not bad, not as good as a custom job.

[SMMAssociates]

the standard spec grip safety has a squared edge on the bottom, and is not necessarily uncomfortable, but with me I have big hands so the safety seats pretty deep into the spot between thumb and forefinger. I also shoot with a loose hand and the gun jars a little when I fire and will scrape my hand, and after MANY rounds its gets a little painful. the other thing with the beavertail at least with me was that the BT allowed the gun to sit lower in my grip hence the gun was more in line with my arm which allowed closer tolerances on my groupings with free hand shooting. So there is more to it than looks. at least for me. anybody else go with that?

As for "drop-in" I haven't seen a drop in part yet that just dropped in
Exactly my reason for changing the beavertail.... I think the ones that need frame machining may be better for some people, but thus far (about 100 rounds) this one's been fine for me, and we don't have any idea how much has been through my buddy's 1911 with the same setup.

If I hadn't gotten a little carried away with the file, mine would have been pretty close to "drop in".... What they mean, of course, is that you don't need a machine shop. :) In my case, I should have used a less agressive file, or at least a lot more finesse. Or both....

To properly assess blame, I should note that Brownells provides an instruction sheet that says "remove metal from here only" and shows about 20 sq.ft. of waste :D . I think it helps 'em sell parts....

[swampertwo]

Probably one of the best "testing checks" of your work is discussed here:
http://www.cylinder-slide.com/1911safetyck.shtml
Bill even wrote it so I could understand it. He also has some "drop-in fire control kits" that are well worth looking into(hammer, sear, disconnector and new sear spring==already fitted and ready to customize your trigger pull.
Jeff :p

[RickB]

I don't think that the drop in beavertails really do anything except cosmetically if thats the look you like. I guess they will also help hammer bite issues which I can't understand at all; and cannot even fathom how someone is holding a gun to get bit. Aside from that; the purpose of the high beavertail is to get the gun to sit lower in your hand for more control. In order to get that effect; you must have the frame cut to fit a beavertail by hand. Those will indeed let the pistol sit down in the hand better. A drop in one that is fitted to the frame where the frame itself is not touched; won't. It is a look cool cosmetic effect only.

Actually, the drop-in beavertail from Wilson does allow the gun to sit lower, as its contours match the frame tangs, which angle upward toward the rear. A buddy of mine put a S&A beavertail on his Springfield, and it required no blending of the tangs; the gun sits little, if any, lower than with a Wilson. No doubt, the S&A looks better (best, in my opinion, of the beavertails), but I reckon you get about 90% of the effectiveness with the Wilson.

[Dwolf00]

I put a Wilson drop in beavertail into a NRM Commander and two XSEs. The stainless ones dropped right in, but the blued ones did require some fitting. I am very pleased with the results. I have found a more comfortable grip and feel of the gun since I dropped these in. I would also add that they are particularly comfortable IMHO in the enhanced series frames.

[19elevin]

Get a drop-in from Wilson Combat, will usually drop right in with only minor filing of the safety tang, or you can get a fitting jig from Wilson and cut the frame. This is qiute a bit of work if you are not familer with this. I've done a few and they have worked well, drop in and frame cut. The drop-in is easier though. Good luck!