Finally, Probs with my MIL SPEC

[Thompsongunner]

I posted earlier that I have put 400 rds through my new MILS SPEC with no malfunctions. Well yesterdy I put about 50 more through it with several fte. It seems that the brass tried to be rechambered with the other round not feeding.happened about 4 times.

I thought I would retension the extractor and the round would still not stay in place. I tried the same test with my old 1911 an the round stayed as it should, so I switched extractors and the cartridge still would not stay in place in the MIL SPEC.

I started comparing slides and it looks like the MIL SPEC breechface is alittle further back the the 1911's so cartridge has more room to move. Any ideas?

Gunner

[stumbler]

First, I think there is a sticky about extractor adjustment (or go to www.m1911.org (http://www.m1911.org/) and look at the tech area) Second, lubrication. Thoroughly clean the extractor area and breechface of the slide. Check that the slide and barrel are in perfect shape and nothing is hindering the slide from going all the way to the rear.

[1911Tuner]

Howdy Gunner,

Sounds like you've got another case of Sringfield Extractor Blues...but it could also be due to another problem that I've seen in a few Springfields lately that knocks the tension out of extractors pretty quickly...and cause
some FTEs even when the tension is good.

Do a quick test:

Take the slide off the gun, and push the barrel forward in the slide far enough to slip a round part-way under the hook. Chamber the round by hand by sliding the barrle back and pushing up on the round. Push the barrel firmly into lockup with the slide. Use a flashlight to look at the relationship between the very front of the hook and the foward angle in the case's
extractor groove to see if the hook is touching the case there...and if it is...
to see if the hook is being cammed open by the contact.

If there's a problem there, it's in the specs involving the slide, barrel, and the extractor...and it'll cause problems until it's corrected...including extractor breakage if it's severe. The good news is that it's usually easy to adjust for.

Standin' by...

[gottripletsNC]

just my 2 pennies, I read alot about SA extractors, and with the help of some of the masters on here figured out to change out my extractor, and FP stop cause the extractor had not the correct steel tension and it also clocked in its slot. Changed both out, and now it feels like butter, no FTE's yet and put a few rounds through it, smoother than any pistol I've ever shot, course there are a few other tweaks to mine too.

[Thompsongunner]

Thxs, for the replies guys!

Stumbler, the pistol was clean. I shoot cheap wimchester and remington fmj. The stuff is dirty as blackpower, so I clean it after each shooting. I have followed Bill Wilsons instructions on tweaking the extractor. So before I tweaked it to much I got out my old 1911 and checked it and the cartridge stayed put os I put the MIL SPEC extractor in it and it worked too.Niether extractor worked in the MIL SPEC.

Gott, I have already replaced the firing pin stop in the MIL SPEC. The one in the old 1911 was showing alot of wear so I put a wolffe stainless in the MIL SPEC and the MIL SPEC's in the 1911. doesn't matter which firing pin stop or which extractor or a combination there of in the MIL SPEC, the cartridge still wants to fall out. Either combination works in the 1911!

Tuner, I tried the trick you suggested. The extractor does not contact the angle of the case, but it's mighty close! I mean it couldn't get any closer and not touch it.

Thxs, for the help guys!

Gunner

[1911Tuner]

Howdy gunner,

If it's that close, it'll touch when the round fires. Do the test again and push a dowel rod into the bore hard against the bullet nose to get the case rim tight against the breechface...and watch the extractor hook closely while you push. If it springs open on the front of the extractor groove...there's your bug.

Standin' by...

[Thompsongunner]

Tuner, it still doesn't touch. The extractor doesn't touch the case anywhere. Got a magnifying glass just to be sure. Where should the extractor be located in relation to the case rim? I knew from thr first few rounds there may be a prob. somewhere from my old days of shoot 45's. An old gunsmith buddy of mine said you will know everything is working good when all the brass lands in the same spot,,,,give or take a foot or two. And the brass from this pistol didn't come close to doing that!

Gunner

[1911Tuner]

Howdy Gunner,

The edge of the rim is the only place that the extractor should touch the case
in order to get tension on it. If sliding the rim under the hook doesn't put the
case under tension, you can reduce the pad just behind the extractor a little to move the hook closer to the slide centerline. Go slow and follow the radius
as closely as you can. Ordnance-spec for the total thickness of the extractor over the pad is .129-.133 inch or thereabouts. Pretty wide window of opportunity on it...just don't go smaller than .125 inch except in rare cases.
MOST OF THE TIME .135 inch will work well. Reduce the pad gradually and check it often. If you get it too small, you'll likely have failures to go to battery unless you back off the tension too much to reliably extract.

Chamber a 230-grain ball round (Not an empty case) at full speed and remove the magazine. Slowly extract the round just far enough to clear the chamber, but don't let it touch the ejector. The round should sag as it clears the chamber but not drop through the magwell. Shake the pistol up and down a 3-4 times. The round should stay put. If it doesn't sag, it probably has too much tension...but check it to see if it'll feed anyway. If it falls down the magwell, it needs more tension.

Your gunsmith is pretty well spot on...but there are more influences on where the brass lands than just the extractor. Brass that's been reloaded several times will often have rim diameters that vary in size. That alone causes the extractor tension to change from shot to shot, and alters the location of the LZ for the cases. Nothing means everything...Everything means something.

Luck!

Tuner

[Thompsongunner]

Tuner,
Thxs for the info! The extractor is way forward of the rim to the point of coming close to touching the angled portion of the case. But I do not see where I should have to file on the extractor or anything else seeing how this is a new pistol. Tweaking the extractor i do not have a prob. with. If something is not milled right or drilled right I would like for them to honor their warranty. I am going to take it by the gunsmith I used to straighten my uncles Browning shotgun barrel after I inherited it. He did a mighty fine job on that and he loves 1911's. If it's an easy fix then I'll let him correct it, If not then back to the factory it goes. Thanks for the info. I do not think I have the expertise to start filing on something, especially since it is under warranty!

I'll keep ya posted on the results!

thxs again, Gunner

[tgr1911]

Gunner

I have had FTE on a 1911 and non 1911. Both times my smith told me to try a stronger recoil spring. It worked both times. :)

Just a thought :)

[Thompsongunner]

Tgr, I have a Wilson 18.5lb heavy duty recoil spring in this pistol.

Gunner

[Thompsongunner]

Hey Tuner,

Just to let you know the "smith" looked at my pistol today and says it does look like they took to much metal off the slide in the area where the firing oin is. He said it looked like it was close to a .030gap there. He is going check it a little closer tomorrow. Looks like it may be going back to S.A.

Gunner

[1911Tuner]

Tuner,
Thxs for the info! The extractor is way forward of the rim to the point of coming close to touching the angled portion of the case. But I do not see where I should have to file on the extractor or anything else seeing how this is a new pistol. Tweaking the extractor i do not have a prob. with. If something is not milled right or drilled right I would like for them to honor their warranty. I am going to take it by the gunsmith I used to straighten my uncles Browning shotgun barrel after I inherited it. He did a mighty fine job on that and he loves 1911's. If it's an easy fix then I'll let him correct it, If not then back to the factory it goes. Thanks for the info. I do not think I have the expertise to start filing on something, especially since it is under warranty!

I'll keep ya posted on the results!

thxs again, Gunner


Howdy Gunner,

It's supposed to sit forward of the front side of the rim for a couple of reasons. As long as it doesn't make contact with the angled area of the case
hard enough to actually spring the extractor open, you're golden.

[Thompsongunner]

Well Tuner Good Buddy I guess i'm golden :D

Talked to the "smith" and he said I had to much gap between the extractor and the breechface and I needed to send it back.

Well when I got home I pulled the old 1911 out to look at it and compare the 2. They looked real close! So i pulled out the feeler gages tonite and guess what? There's not a hairs differenence between the extractor and the breechface of the two :eek:

So I retensioned the extractor and it is holding the cartridges as advertised :D

A gunsmith can kill your gun as fast as a doctor can kill a patient.
It's best to have alittle education when you go see either one!

Thanks for the help ;)

Gunner

[1911Tuner]

AH! True...I've seen some shoody work from several gunsmiths that are supposed to know better. In response to your .030 gap situation, go have a look at this thread. There are two others that are related, and I'll try to find'em. Put on a pot of coffee and settle back. This issue coulda been a short novel. :rolleyes:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=115715