not english make ?

[canuck]

great forum everyone
it has influenced me to finally get myself one of these fine pistols
what i'm not sure about is a stamping on the frame "not english make" with a proof mark : BV in a circle with a crown. this stamping is also evident on the slide directly behind the ejection port
the gun itself is a 1911a1 marked US property serial #2288xxx that shoots well and is in good shape for being 50+ yrs old!
would you guys consider this a shooter or should i keep it in the safe and pick myself up that Kimber thats on sale down at the local shop!?
tx guys

[Scott Gahimer]

The Brit commercial proofs only indicate the pistol was sold on the commercial market out of England. Slide, frame and barrel should have the proofs.
The pistols are still quite collectible. I'd put this one away and buy a shooter for any extended use.

[canuck]

thanks for the answer scott, i checked the barrel but cant find the "not english make" only a "P" on the left and "HS" on the right of the ?underlug?
(not sure if that is what it is called)must have been changed in its lifetime?
also am icorrect to assume that this pistol started as a US issue, sold into british commercial market (such a thing?) and then imported into canada? sorry if i sound like i dont know what i'mtalking about but hey i don,t!

[Scott Gahimer]

The barrel, if the original when it was sold through England, will also have Brit proofs on top of the chamber.
The serial number you gave is a Colt number. The HS barrel is not what was originally in the gun.
Yes, your gun started life just like any other USGI .45. At some point it was shipped overseas (not necessarily to England) to another country. It may have even gone to a commonwealth country. No way of knowing for sure where it shipped. But, we do know the gun was sold commercially through England.
Interarms bought several .45s from all over the place, and many were collected in England, proofed, sold and shipped from there to various countries, including the USA and possbly Canada. I'm not familiar with what may have specifically been sold to companies/dealers in Canada. But there used to be ads for such guns in many of the gun rags here years ago.

[canuck]

great info scott i'm learning more here on 1911.org than i did hanging at gun shops for a year!
so with a replacement barrel in my gun obviously the value is affected but would you still consider it a collector piece?

[Scott Gahimer]

Glad you are enjoying the forum and look forward to your continued participation.
I personally would still consider your pistol more desirable than any of the commercially produced guns of today in similar condition. Here in the U.S., even a decent "shooter" USGI gun brings about $600-750.
There is always the possibility you can find a Colt barrel with the correct Brit proofs on it. I would guess there might be more guns in Canada with Brit proofs on average than in the U.S.
Your gun was proofed in England prior to the Proof Act of 1955. The "NOT ENGLISH MAKE" stamp was eliminated at that time.
BTW, I posted some photos of a 1943 Colt that is one of the 1515 pistols lend-leased to Canada in a thread entitled 'O Canada!' at www.1911forum.com in the USGI section recently. It believe it has the same Brit proofs as your pistol. These pistols also are the only documented 1911A1s shipped from Springfield Armory to the Canadian govt during WWII. They also have the C-Broad Arrow property mark, which makes them neat and highly collectible.

[canuck]

wow scott that L-L is sweet only now i have another prob... another great 1911 site!!!
anyway i'm now feeling good about my purchase(can a man feel bad about buying a colt 45?!)as i gave $450 kanukstan for it
btw if anyone knows of a colt barrel with proper brit proofs i'm in the market!

[Scott Gahimer]

Another site to check out is http://www.armscollectors.com/srs.htm
You can click on the 1911 section, enter your full serial number, and see if there is any additional info on your pistol from the National Archives.
Sometimes you get lucky and get a direct hit, which will show up as blue print.
The Springfield Research Service info is not all inclusive, nor does it necessarily furnish any shipping dates. It does, however, show where a specific gun was on a specific date. It's just a "snapshot" in time.
BTW, welcome to the forum. Glad you found us! There's a lot of good info available just from reading old posts.
I would also strongly suggest picking up a copy of Charles Clawson's Collector's Guide to Colt .45 Service Pistols Models of 1911 and 1911A1 Third Edition. It is still available and is the best investment you'll ever make in a book on .45s. It's not too expensive either. You can order online just by doing a search, or by contacting Karl Karash direct at kxk1@juno.com

[canuck]

i ckecked into that site - very intresting,
looks like my pistol spent time with the Maine NG 1949
tx agn

[TriumphGT6]

ISTR reading year ago that the "not English make" marking was routinely applied to arms imported to Britain from the US and elsewhere, during the early "emergency" years of WW2. It was applied to anything-- shotguns issued to the home guard, you name it. I've no idea *why* they did this, but they did.

Unfortunately I can't remember *where* I read that little tidbit, so I can't help you really. But I would be willing to bet that at least that one component of your .45 is a veteran. :) So enjoy it-- shoot it once in a while (say, on Independence Day!) and get something less historical for plinking. (See, you *need* a 2nd 1911-- I'm only trying to help!)