Commander

[Jerome Howard]

My Colt Commander. Not a Lightweight Commander or Combat Commander, just a Commander. From the early '60's when all Commanders had the lightweight Coltalloy frame.

From back when Colt was King.

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2699/dsc052942ws.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/8247/dsc053178ft.jpg

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2701/dsc053189sf.jpg

[wichaka]

WOW! Nice Commander..........

My friend, Colt is still king.........and has never given up the crown or the title.

[Hunter]

That is a real nice Colt Commander you have but what do you mean "from back when Colt was king". Colt still holds that title. They made the best then, do now, and will tomorrow. I feel sure when laser guns come out Colt will still be at the top. :D

[Mystro]

That baby looks darn near perfect!
Nice Colt! :)

[Jerome Howard]

I knew that phrase would get a rise out of someone!

Colt has always been my favorite brand when it comes to 1911's, even though I own and have owned many others.

This Commander makes me think back to the days when life was simpler, and you didn't need an extended beavertail or extended safety, and any of the other "jazz" on your 1911. It's not perfect, it has some wear, but its the honest wear of a very well taken care of pistol. It has been carried some, and fired VERY little.

[1911Tuner]

Jerome said:

>My Colt Commander. Not a Lightweight Commander or Combat Commander, just a Commander. From the early '60's when all Commanders had the lightweight Coltalloy frame.<
*********************

They still do. All Commanders are alloy. Always have been. Combat Commanders are steel-framed. Combat Commanders came along later, and alloy-framed Commanders then became known...unofficially at first...as Lightweight Commanders (or Airweight Commanders)...and Colt started using CLW in the serial numbers.

Nice old Commander by the way...I'm in search of another one myself.

[Jerome Howard]

The innards are still near pristine on this one. It just has a few little flea bites externally, from carry.

[Cocked & Locked]

That is an extremely nice Commander...it has the "Right Look" about it! Very nice pistol and great photographs.

Not to compete (it ain't even got a chance) nor to pirate your thread, but I'll throw a couple of pics of my labeled as such LWC in. Mine is much the junior to yours and not nearly as desirable.

http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL523/3082611/9381895/145234135.jpg

http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL523/3082611/9381895/145234121.jpg

[Jerome Howard]

Very nice. Those grips set it off nicely!

[Blackhawk]

Jerome that Colt of yours is incredible. Fine example of great gun.

[John]

Where shall I send the bill for the keyboard that just short-circuited? :p :D

[Jerome Howard]

I'll bring you a new keyboard. I'd love to see Greece some day.

[John]

You are most welcome. Just let me know before you come to this end of the planet.

[Jerome Howard]

What lb recoil spring should I be using in this pistol?

Your opinions on Shok Buffs?

I want this baby to last, but I want to shoot maybe 100 rounds a month through it.

[clughog]

The pictures say it all--those are sure fine pistols! Colt's are still the standard by which all other semiautomatics are judged. And the clones are nice, but there is absolutely NOTHING like the genuine Colt 1911. I appreciate the others, but just don't have the income (or desire) to invest in them. Wish I could take photographs like you guys do!

[John]

What lb recoil spring should I be using in this pistol?

Your opinions on Shok Buffs?

I want this baby to last, but I want to shoot maybe 100 rounds a month through it.
That depends on the ammo you plan to use. The normal weight for the Commander (i.e. when firing standard pressure ammo) is 20 lbs. I won't deviate from that.

I am against shock buffs in general, I do not believe such a small piece of plastic can alter the dynamics of the slide impacting the frame enough, to be of use. They can be useful as a diagnostic tools, but any 1911 should be quite happy without them. Also, they can cause problems, in shorter 1911s, like the Commanders and the Officers, or even worst the 3" guns.

[Hunter]

What John said!

[wichaka]

Correction........normal weight in Commanders is 18lbs. not 20. Run a 17, you'll like it better.

[Hunter]

I believe you but in the Kuhnhausen manual page 90 calls for a 20 pound recoil spring in the Commander. Will a 17 pound recoil spring work better in a Commander?

[Jeffrey]

That baby looks darn near perfect!
Nice Colt! :)

My thoughts exactly.

[John]

I believe you but in the Kuhnhausen manual page 90 calls for a 20 pound recoil spring in the Commander.

So does Bill Wilson.

[wichaka]

Yep.........take a stock gov length recoil spring and cut it down to 24 coils........or 23 1/2 if needed. Will put you at around 17lbs.

Most guns are oversprung.............

[1911Tuner]

20 pound recoil spring??? :eek:

Pore li'l barrel feets...Pore li'l slidestop pin...What'd they ever do to you?

[John]

OK Master, if someone does not want to use the suggested 20 lbs (Kuhnhausen is loosing points lately and Wilson too), and does not want to trim a standard 16 lbs Gov. length, what off-the-shelf spring should he get for a Commander? Educate us oh Master!

[1911Tuner]

Wichaka already did it. :p

In all my years of testing the 4.25-inch Colts, I have yet to find a recoil spring
in even new ones that came close to 20 pounds...and none that were even as high as 18. Most ran in the 15-16 pound range.

Take a 16-pound Wolff spring designed for the 5-inch guns. (32 turns) Clip it to 23.5-24 coils and check for coil bind in your individual gun. The added preload will net about 16.5-17 pounds at full compression on average.

Note that this won't work in Officer's Models with the old-design
recoil systems. The spacing between coils is different.

[John]

So, if someone wants to pay the extra money the Commander's springs sell for, an 17 lbs spring should be OK?

[1911Tuner]

So, if someone wants to pay the extra money the Commander's springs sell for, an 17 lbs spring should be OK?


Maybe. I know a guy who ordered an 18-pound spring, specifically marked for a Commander, under a well-known label. It arrived...he slapped in the gun...and broke the bushing and the end of the slide before he got to the bottom of the first magazine. Coil bind was the culprit. As far as I know,
only ISMI includes instructions on checking for this with their springs.

[Jerome Howard]

Now I'm more confused than before I asked.......

I dont want to cut anything, I want to purchase, and put it in.

...and what about the Ed Brown variable rate springs?

[lemppa]

Just, BEAUTIFULL!!!

Regards,

lemppa

[1911Tuner]

Quote:

>I dont want to cut anything, I want to purchase, and put it in.<

While you can hope that a given part will drop in and work, it's probably best not to count on it. Cutting a spring to length isn't hard. A good pair of side-cutters and a medium stone to dress the ragged end is about all that's required. If you don't know how to check for coil bind, just sing out. Ah'm yer man.
***********



Question:

>...and what about the Ed Brown variable rate springs?<

Dunno. Never saw any need for variable springs, or the added cost.

[Jerome Howard]

This is my 4th Commander, but my first one with the lightweight frame.

Please explain coil bind. I don't think I've ever had it before.

And why wouldn't a person just buy these?

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=714298

[1911Tuner]

Howdy Jerome,

A coil spring that is compressed until the space between the wire is gone is said to be in coil bind. Essentially the spring becomes a solid cylinder. If your recoil spring goes into coil bind before the slide hits the impact surface in the frame, the spring stops the slide, and transfers the impact shock to the
barrel bushing flange and in turn to the bushing lug and its raceway in the end of the slide...which is a pretty thin area. The bushing usually breaks first,
but sometimes the slide lets go, or cracks...then breaks out later. Coil bind generally isn't a problem in 5-inch guns due to the ample room in the spring tunnel. Commander-length and shorter is usually where you find it.

To check for coil bind, Install the recoil system, but leave the spring plug out.
Pull the slide to the rear and put a strip of masking tape on the dust cover.
Hold the slide back and make a witness mark on the tape that lines up with the end of the slide or the front face of the bushing. Install the spring plug and pull the slide full rearward again, and look to see if the mark is lined up with the reference point. If it does, you're okay. If the reference point is forward of the witness mark...even a tiny bit...you have coil bind. Trim a half-turn off the coil and recheck...repeat until the mark aligns with the reference point.

The spring that broke the slide on my neighbor's XSE Commander was a Wilson spring...likely made by Wolff...and labeled "Commander Recoil Spring."
It had about 2 turns too many, went into coil bind, and damaged an expensive slide beyond repair.

As a sidenote, I noticed that the advertisement for the springs stated that
a spring too light can cause the gun to "Open too early and close too hard"...which indicates that whoever wrote that doesn't understand how the 1911's short recoil design functions...so take things like that with a grain of salt.

A little experimentation will let you see that using a stronger spring actually increases felt recoil rather than softens it. Again, an understanding of how the gun works is helpful in understanding why this is.

Clews:

1...For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
2...Springs work in both directions.

Why not buy those listed for my Commanders? Well...with my discount at Brownells, I can buy a 10-pack of standard 16-pound springs for less than 30 bucks...lop 8 turns off and go...or just stick'em in a 5-inch gun as they come out of the package. I go through a lotta springs...

[Jerome Howard]

So, what you are saying is, even if I purchase recoil springs that are specifically made for the Commander, there could still be a problem?

[1911Tuner]

So, what you are saying is, even if I purchase recoil springs that are specifically made for the Commander, there could still be a problem?

Precisely. Not as a rule, but possible. Read again: There just ain't any such thing as a (guaranteed) drop-in part.

[res1b3uq]

While I've got you here, I recently became the owner of a Series 80 LW Commander. Upon examination I found that the recoil spring was made from square stock. I have owned several pistols, but this was the first "square" spring I have encountered. Is this common? Is it the "stock" Colt spring? The pistol also has a shock buffer, and works very well, indeed.

[1911Tuner]

While I've got you here, I recently became the owner of a Series 80 LW Commander. Upon examination I found that the recoil spring was made from square stock. I have owned several pistols, but this was the first "square" spring I have encountered. Is this common? Is it the "stock" Colt spring? The pistol also has a shock buffer, and works very well, indeed.

Probably an ISMI flat-wound spring...