Considering 1911 serial # 855xx

[rustycolt]

I saw a 1911 at a local shop. It is serial # 855xx and has this one one side

Pat Apr20 1897 Sept 9 1902 Dec 19 1905 Feb14 1911
Colts PTF Mfg Co Hartford Ct

It does not appear to say "goverment model" or "goverment property". The magazine has a small chain brazed to the bottom of it. Almost no original finish left and quite a bit of corrosion around the edges. Asking price is $499 + tax.

Is this a fair deal considering the condition?

[Johnny Peppers]

The frame should have UNITED STATES PROPERTY on the forward left side. If not, it has been removed.

[rustycolt]

I looked at it again today and there is no marking on the frame other than the serial number and a small circled "SW" above the magazine release. Considering the condition and lack of goverment marking should I just pass this one up?

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rustycolt/img022.jpg

[Mick_In_Texas]

Rusty, Johnny...

Something I think isn't right about it. If it was USGI, it would have, as Johnny said, "United States Property" stamped on the right side of the frame, in front of the slide stop, like my Colt USGI. The small chain brazed to it is definitely a modification. Your photo, looks like blued or Black Army, which should be right... I can't find the bookmark to give you to the USGI site... Your slide info seems to be correct. The serial number puts it as an early one, if it's authentic, as I recall... mine is mid to late 1918 manufacture, and is a 6-digit serial number. The hammer on the one in the pic is not original to the serial number range, but, neither is mine: I have a Model 2 hammer on mine, probably replaced the Model 1 in the Augusta Armory rebuild on mine.

Hard to say... will the owner/dealer let you field-strip it and function check it? You especially need to do that, and check the barrel rifling and condition. To do that, you'll have to field strip it. Rust not good, but, if it's superficial, could be removed and prevented with good gun care. Look on John's site, for the link to function checking a 1911/A1. In the pic, the trigger doesn't look "long" enough: 1911s have a way longer trigger than 1911A1s. The slide stop and thumb safety, should be checkered, not with only horizontal "grooves" on both.

If I can find that 1911 USGI site URL, I'll post it for you this weekend here in this thread. Found it!: http://www.coolgunsite.com/ ... the serial number would be 1914 manufacture--and Colt, so that is accurate. It might be well worth the $499, could be a bargain; but, I would check it out physically. I got mine for $995 from New York State, and I lucked out. It's fireable and functional. Exercise caution but, you might have hit upon something here. Like Johnny, I still wonder why it doesn't have the US property stamp on it--the date of manufacture, and S/N range, seems like it should have. If the S/N is accurate, it should be Colt military production, but, Army, not Marines or Navy.

Hope this helps some. You and yours take care and be safe.
Mick

[rustycolt]

Thanks for the information Mick. I am going to offer them $300 for it to see if they bite.

[Doran]

I would like to see a picture of the magazine if that's possible. The circle above the magazine catch should say WGP. The grip shown looks more like a Springfield, I think.

[Mick_In_Texas]

Doran...

I can't really make out the grip in the photo. The grips on mine have the cutout stains on them, and they appear to be original. I don't know about the mag--it's old, and pretty worn, doesn't really have any marks on it (stampings).

If Rusty has hit upon an original... and it's functional and he can get it for 300-499, wow. I'd like to see some better photos of it, as well. I think we as real fans of JMB's original design, CRAVE an original... that is functional and fireable, like my old Colt USGI. But, I have seen some... even on GunBroker.Com... that I'd avoid like the plague or bird flu! Stuff just wasn't flanging up, even from what little I know about the original USGIs, especially from WWI. Me, I just like the 1911 design, better than the 1911A1. But, he may have come across something here.

You make a good point. Rusty, how's it going on this one, this weekend?

Y'all all take care and be safe.
Mick

[exitwounds]

Based on the diamond pattern in the picture shown, I to think they may be Springfield grips also.

Colt = 15 rows of checkering +/- 1 between the diamonds
Rem UMC = 13 rows +/- 1
Springfield = 11 rows +/- 1

[rustycolt]

I did not get a chance to go back by there but here is another picture I took that day. I did not get any pictures of the magazine. I count about 15 lines of checkering between the diamonds. I noticed that the serial # does not have a "No." before it like many of the other pistols I have seen. I am not sure if that means anything or not.


http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rustycolt/img023.jpg

[rustycolt]

According to this 15 lines of checkering is colt 1911

http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/grips_stocks.htm

[Johnny Peppers]

All the 1911's had a No. prefix to the serial number. With the USP being removed, the original serial number may have been removed also. A pistol with an altered serial number should be avoided.

[rustycolt]

I just wonder if the finish is so bad that I can't see the markings.

[Doran]

Appears it might have a round topped rear sight. If so, that would be too early for 85k. The grip on this side looks Colt. I don't see any MODEL OF... in this picture, probably obliterated if the USP and serial were also altered. I agree with Johnny, this one may have some legality issues.

[rustycolt]

I looked at it again today and there is no evidence at all of a "No." before the serial number, no evidence of a USP marking, and the rear sight is rounded.

It is a dealer so all of the paperwork from an legal standpoint would be ok but the lack of markings makes me wonder if it is some sort of mongrel. I don't need a $500 'shooter'.

Thanks for the education.