Springfields vs Colts (vs Kimber, PA, Kahr...)

[kansas_plainsman]

On another forum/board I had an admittedly Colt-centric fellow react in horror to hear that I had traded a Colt 1911A1 Series 80 for my Springfield. (The trade wasn't quite that simple, but as far as it goes, that's what happened.)

I'm quite happy with the trade for my own reasons, but are Springfields seen as that much lower in quality than the Colts?

Mor generally, where in the 1911A1 pecking order would one place Springfields - Against, say, Kimber, S&W, Colt, Para-Ordinance, Kahr..?

[ArmedsouthernEr]

To me a springfield is just as good as a colt. Springfield also makes pistols like the TRP that are far superior to anything colt puts out in my opinion. Im not a Colt purest, i guess you could call me new school.To me Kimber,Springfield, and Colt are the three major players in the 1911 scene. This is just my opinion though.

[malinois1]

I agree I would buy a SA first before any of the rest mentioned. If the Colt guys want to believe colt is better good for them...but I like SA!!!

[Jeffrey]

On another forum/board I had an admittedly Colt-centric fellow react in horror to hear that I had traded a Colt 1911A1 Series 80 for my Springfield. (The trade wasn't quite that simple, but as far as it goes, that's what happened.)

I'm quite happy with the trade for my own reasons, but are Springfields seen as that much lower in quality than the Colts?

Mor generally, where in the 1911A1 pecking order would one place Springfields - Against, say, Kimber, S&W, Colt, Para-Ordinance, Kahr..?

I would prefer the Colt, but that's just me. Springfield makes some fine 1911's and I would not hesitate to buy one. You said it yourself, "I'm quite happy with the trade for my own reasons." Isn't that all that matters? ;)

[Hunter]

The Springfield is a fine 1911 but it not of Colt quality. Trust me I have both. As far as the Springfield TRP I cannot say for sure as I have never shot that model but I am sure it is no Colt Gold Cup Trophy. I have right many friends who own Springfields and like I said they are fine 1911s but to me the proof is at the impact berm. To really get an idea detail strip a Colt and compare that to a Springfield and you will began to understand. Colts are not the best because I own them but I own them because they are the best. I am not trying to rock the boat as I am sure a slew of folks will disagree with me (which is fine) but I can honestly say I firmly believe Colt to be the superior 1911 over the Springfield or any other for that matter. My oldest Colt came to me in a trade for a Springfield (from my father) but not because the Springfield was better but My father did not want to risk the old Colt. He still has visitation rights. Remember if it is not a Colt it is a copy.

[kansas_plainsman]

To really get an idea detail strip a Colt and compare that to a Springfield and you will began to understand.

I was pretty compulsive about cleaning my Colt (1911A1 Series 80) when I was shooting it - had it apart EVERY time I shot it (I live on my own land so a shooting session might be less than 15 rounds; coyote encounters: less).

My colt was a quality firearm, (though I could argue about the plastic trigger, it didn't adversely affect function). Looking at my Springfield I see no points of design, materials or manufacture which compare unfavorably.

If my colt was small enough for CCW then I'd still have it - I was accurate with it and it always worked.

But it wasn't the right size, and this Springfield is. Quality is apparently quite adequate, and so far, I find it reliable and accurate. As radar says, "Isn't that all that matters?"

[COTTON302]

I have carried a Colt 1991A1 for 12 years as a duty weapon. (City Police) I chose it for the 1911 design and the name (Colt). I have, just this month, switched to a Kimber for my duty weapon although I will never get rid of my Colt. There are night and day quality differences between the two but then my Colt was originally a Mil-spec gun (it has been in the custom shop a couple of times over the years) and the Kimber is a TLE/RL II in stainless. So that is a little apples and oranges. I am a little unhappy with Colts factory out of the box offerings compared to Kimber, Springfield, Wilson, Les Baer, etc. But I am still (and always will be) a Colt fan. I would have bought the Springfield and still kept the Colt. :)

[lwhespel]

I've owned close to a dozen 1911's from a variety of manufacturers. I had two Colt's - both MK IV Series 80, Stainless. One was a Govt model & the other was a Combat Commander. They were nice pistols but I didn't think they were any nicer than my two Springfield "Loaded" models. They were nice shooters but when I held them and fired them side-by-side with the Springers I didn't notice any superiority in the Colts. I guess I'm not a real 1911 connoisseur but I'm happy with my Springfields and don't really miss those Colts at all.

I think all of the major manufacturers make a nice 1911 (although I admit to having no experience with the S&W versions). If you are happy with the Springer than that is the "best" 1911 for you!

[Hawkmoon]

Mor generally, where in the 1911A1 pecking order would one place Springfields - Against, say, Kimber, S&W, Colt, Para-Ordinance, Kahr..?
You're likely to get a lot of different answers to this one, especially since many people haven't had first-hand experience with all of the brands mentioned (and that includes me). I have at least fondled and fired a few shots through most, though, so I'll take a shot at it:

Springfield vs. Colt ==> Colt
Springfield vs. Kimber ==> tie
Springfield vs. S&W ==> S&W
Springfield vs. Para-Ordnance ==> Para-Ordnance
Springfield vs. Kahr ==> Springfield

[dakota1911]

I have owned and had experience with all the brands mentioned (>2K rounds at least) except Kahr, and the only Kahr I have shot (and have) is the PM9 which I have only about 1K rounds through.

I agree with Hawkmoon, except:
Springfield vs. Kimber ==> Kimber

On a positive note Springfields are higher in the "pecking order" than RIAs, Llamas, Norincos, etc. When Taurus gets their 1911 on the market it will be interesting to see how things change.

Still, if you like the pistol and can shoot well with it then why worry. You can show up the guy with the Colt and the guy with the cheaper RIA can make you look bad.

[SgtRich]

I own a Colt Gov't Model that I bought in 1973. I love it dearly but, to be honest, I think the quality of current Colts that I've seen is terrible.

I have a Kimber & a S&W and think they are both great guns. I plan on buying a Springfield "Loaded" next.

Just my opinion.

[shilo]

I wasted money on two Colt's before and never again. Everyone of the brands you mentioned are better than Colt. Also, lets not forget when Colt decided they weren't going to sell AR's to the public or handguns. I want to support companies that support the shooting public.

[OD*]

Also, lets not forget when Colt decided they weren't going to sell AR's to the public or handguns. I want to support companies that support the shooting public.
That is an old internet myth, it never happened.

[OD*]

I think the quality of current Colts that I've seen is terrible.
That has not been my experience. I have Colt's from 1913 thru 2005, the newer ones are some of the best.

[dakota1911]

I have found the fit, finish, and operation of the two XSE Govs and two XSE LW Commanders I have purchased in the last year or so nothing short of amazing. On the other hand, if eveyone wants to buy a Colt the prices will only go higher, and I do want to buy a new Gold Cup to go with the one I bought in 1977, and a WWI repro to go with my real WWI era commercial Colt. Not that SA is bad. The ones I have are O.K. I do keep looking for an SA Longslide. The fit and finish on the last two I looked at made me turn away, but maybe I will find a good one someday.

[RickB]

If Colt is making, or has made, what I want I prefer Colt, but will happily buy a gun made by someone else. I wanted a Government Model, uh, that is, a full-size .38 Super, and Springfield was making one, so I bought it. Nice gun. When Colt came out with a similar model, I sold the Springer and bought the Colt. Also a nice gun. People will often talk of what brand X has that Colt doesn't have, in terms of "features", but I've found I prefer to choose my own features, and on a Colt, I don't have to try to undo things I don't like, such as forward cocking serrations, proprietary sight dovetails, cheap parts, cheap finishes, etc.

[Sgt. Quincannon]

The ONLY 1911 type pistol I've ever had any trouble with was a stainless AMT Hardballer- couldn't fire even 1 full magazine without 2 or 3 jams. Of the many Colt, Remington Rand, Ithaca, Springfield Armory(current production), Sistema Colt and Ballester-Molina pistols I've owned and shot (and Lord, don't I wish I'd kept them all!!!), ALL have been reliable and reasonably accurate, except for that one AMT.

[flyingtexan]

Any plastic parts in a Colt? Any Plastic parts in a Springfield? Nuff said

[Hawkmoon]

My colt was a quality firearm, (though I could argue about the plastic trigger, it didn't adversely affect function). Looking at my Springfield I see no points of design, materials or manufacture which compare unfavorably.
How do you feel about Springfield's two-piece barrels?

[OD*]

I don' recall ever hearing of any Colt nylon parts breakage,
I have heard of cast and MIM failures.

[Hunter]

It looks like I should have been following this thread better. I will try and stick to the point and not get myself in trouble. Colt NEVER stopped selling AR 15s or handguns (or anything else for that matter) to the public period. The quality of todays Colts are second to none. I have shot a few Kimbers and I was not impressed at all. They build their pistols and chambers too tight. I have several Colts with nylon parts one I have had 12 years and nothing has broken on that Colt or any other I had. shilo I am sorry sir but you grossly misinformed. You all don't like Colt? Fine by me but It takes more than outdated rumors and speculation to prove your point to me. S&W is the company who signed and agrement with the last adminstration undermining the pro gun efforts of many other companies and that is the reason I do not or will not own a S&W. Check out all the posts here with poor Kimber quality. Remember if it not a Colt it is a copy.

[Chaindog7777]

That is an old internet myth, it never happened.

Um...no it isn't?

I distinctly remember Colt officials saying that they will continue to support the "Scary Weapons" ban and will not be selling AR-15's to the General Public and sure won't be selling Hi-Cap Magazines.

Trying not to be political however it is difficult. But those are what I heard and what I was told by a Colt Representative.

[OD*]

Ah, yes it was.

You can buy them now?
http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/rifles.asp

[Hunter]

High capacity magazine were outlawed by the government and Colt nor any other manufacture could sell them in accordance with Federal gun laws. As far as the "scary weapons", assault weapons that met ATF (again Federal government) regulations were referred to as scary weapons in accordance with the assault weapon ban. ATF's definition of assault weapons (ie bayonet lug, pistol grip, detachable box magazine, and so on) were outlawed so the weapon in question had to comply with the new regulations if it were made after a ceratin date (hence pre ban/post ban) and to be sold to the public.AR 15s were made to comply with the assault weapon ban and were continually sold to the public then. They are still offered today brand new. Ever manufacture was required (again by Federal law not by their own accord) to comply with the assault weapon/ high capacity magazine ban. That ban since expired You must also consider that specific representative's position. Many firearms companies hired damage control representatives in order to keep from going bankrupt due to frivolous lawsuits and greedy lawyers. Colt is not anti gun (that in itself would be defeating the whole reason for the Colt manufacturing company to be in business). Colt is a responsible firearm manufacture that produces excellent weapons and due to bad/stupid gun laws must always practice CYA.

[Chaindog7777]

Okay so it probably was the representatives bias?

Also, OD* my apologies, you were correct. However it still appears they won't sell high cap magazines for those rifles. All their mags are at or below 10 rounds. Bushmaster gives a 10 rounder and a 30 rounder with some rifles.

However they may actually be selling <10 round magazines. But I didn't see anything that indicated such. They don't even sell magazines on their website.

Bushmaster and Springfield > Colt

My .02 cents.

[OD*]

No apologies needed amigo, these rumors have been floating around before you were born, I first heard them in the early '80s. ;)

My choice would be Colt then Bushmaster, all bolts and barrels under go proof testing/magnetic particle inspection at Colt, the others don't.

Colt Match Target
http://mysite.verizon.net/od45/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/coltmatchtarget.jpg

Bushmaster M4gery.
http://mysite.verizon.net/od45/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/m-4a2.jpg


But you are correct on the magazines, no excuse for that.

[Lloyd Smale]

my order of preference
colt
kimber
para
springfield
I own at least one of each and a few of some least troublesome out of the box COLT least reliable out of the box Springfield. Al can be made to run well with a little tinkering though.

[Rio Vista Slim]

During my lifetime, I've owned (but no longer have) 5 pre-80 Series Colts, 3 Series I Kimbers, 2 Series II Kimbers, and 1 Springfield G.I. Mil-Spec. All of these pistols were functionally reliable, accurate firearms. Only one, a Kimber Stainless Ultra Carry II, ever gave me any problems, and those were promptly and competently repaired by Kimber.

Earlier this year, I bought a Colt XSE LW Commander in nickel/stainless finish. At the time, I still owned the Ultra Carry and a Kimber Raptor II. When a Mark IV/Series 70 (reissue) in blued finish showed up at my local gun shop, the Ultra Carry was part of the trade. I don't miss it.

When that same gun shop acquired a stainless Mark IV/Series 70 (reissue), the Raptor was history. Why?

Because, as others have said in this thread (as well as throughout this forum), Colt did it first, they did it best, and (from my perspective of 35 years of gun buying) they continue to be the best.

[Hersh]

Earlier this year, I bought a Colt XSE LW Commander in nickel/stainless finish. At the time, I still owned the Ultra Carry and a Kimber Raptor II. When a Mark IV/Series 70 (reissue) in blued finish showed up at my local gun shop, the Ultra Carry was part of the trade. I don't miss it.

When that same gun shop acquired a stainless Mark IV/Series 70 (reissue), the Raptor was history.

And everytime you post that picture that shows all three of your new Colts I have to change my shorts :D

[Rio Vista Slim]

And everytime you post that picture that shows all three of your new Colts I have to change my shorts :D
I appreciate that Hersh. :D I have got to admit that for once in my life, all the right ingredients came together at the right time. I am totally happy with my recent acquisitions, and feel no sorrow over trading the Kimbers.