Barrel swaps for USGI 1911A1's

[rickleon]

I just picked up a decent Ithaca US Army M1911A1 with s/n in the low 2 millions (sorry John: no camera, so no pix), and the rifling in the barrel looks pretty worn. I shot about 7" groups at 50' (that's after about 100 rounds of practice--I know I'm a lousy shot, but I do better with my 1991A1 and Springfield Mil-Spec), and am wondering what to look for in replacement barrels for the GI issue models, eg. hood-widths and mfr's.

Rick

[exitwounds]

The Ithaca was normally found with an HS (High Standard) stamped barrel, and some F (Flannery) stamped barrels in 1944 and 1945. If you replace the barrel keep the old one, and any other parts you might change. As a replacement any USGI barrel will work. Other things that may effect accuracy are the barrel bushing, barrel link and pin, slide stop, and wear ( slide to frame fit). A reasonable expectation of accuracy for a USGI 1911 or 1911A1 out of the box is 2.5" - 3" groups at 25 yards and typically using 230 gr. FMJ ammo. additionally shooting technique also plays a big role in accuracy. Personally I would not modify the pistol to achieve accuracy, and I would verify the condition and fit of the other parts before commiting to a new barrel.

[Joni Lynn]

Ok......... I understand........no camera no pics..........but............do you have any crayons?

[rickleon]

The Ithaca was normally found with an HS (High Standard) stamped barrel, and some F (Flannery) stamped barrels in 1944 and 1945.

Sure 'nuff, there's an HS cleanly stamped on the right side of the link lug. Also looks like a lighter and looser stamped P on the other side. Just so happens that there's a new (surplus I'd guess) HS USGI barrel up for grabs on eBay of which I'm watching. Indeed I'll hang onto the original barrel and any other parts that I might replace. If I get another barrel, it must be all blued like the eBay example.

My groups were made standing with a two-handed grip in an indoor range. I'd bench-rest it or at least use some kinda support before I'd make any adjustments. Otherwise, I'm gonna leave it as is. Thanks.

[rickleon]

...do you have any crayons?

I are a artist of sorts, so maybe I can draw pitchers. I just have to figure out how to stuff 'em into my computer.

Rick

[Mark Hitchcock]

A new H-S/P barrel on ebay will run you $100.00 plus. If you get it, save it, pick up a modern stainless used for under $50.00 and shoot it. They don't make the H-S/Ps anymore. The stainless are made everyday and they don't rust

[exitwounds]

If you shop around or attend gun shows you should be able to find a post ww II USGI replacement barrel that is chrome lined for $50 or less, and HS barrels are still pretty common and can be found for musch less then Ebay get's for them.. For two handed standing shooting that's not too bad, I had soldiers on the 25 meter range that had a better chance hitting the target if they threw their pistol at it.

[rickleon]

exitwounds:

That was 50 FEET for those 7" patterns. Doubt I could even SEE a target 80+ ft away! By the way, the slide/frame fit on the Ithaca is hardly worse than that of my 1991A1, and the latter's pretty accurate. Just had a trigger job done on the Colt though. Could be those teeny GI sights too.

There's a small gun show coming up nearby this month, and I'll add an HS barrel to my list. Are those $50 chrome-lined barrels blued on the outside, and who makes 'em? And thanks for the pricing info.

Rick

[exitwounds]

Are those $50 chrome-lined barrels blued on the outside, and who makes 'em? And thanks for the pricing info.

Rick

All the USGI barrels that are chrome lined that I have seen have had a phosphate finish. The are marked on the chamber hood: .45 AUTO (over) 7791193 (part number) more modern production may have a a two digit year code under the 7791193 (such as 83 for 1983). These were made by numerous companies such as Colt, H&R, IMI, National Aerospace Corp., S&W, LB, Mec Airtronics, etc. All are good quality, some included a barrel link and pin. Last one I picked up at a gun show was NIW and just under $50. ;)

[exitwounds]

That was 50 FEET for those 7" patterns. Doubt I could even SEE a target 80+ ft away!

Rick

The targets on the range were at 10 meters, 15 meters, and 25 meters and were actual size of the upper half of the human body. The 5 - 6.5 lb. trigger pull and short trigger made it difficult for some individuals to achieve accuracy. If your slide to frame fit is good, that is good. You may still want to check your small parts for wear (bushing, link & pin, slide stop). You might want to check out the diagnostic target on: http://www.m1911.org/technic.htm it may be of some interest to you.

[rickleon]

The 5 - 6.5 lb. trigger pull and short trigger made it difficult for some individuals to achieve accuracy. You might want to check out the diagnostic target on: http://www.m1911.org/technic.htm it may be of some interest to you.

There's nothing wrong with that Ithaca save for the shooter behind the trigger! I downloaded a few of those diagnostic targets, had a meal beforehand, squeeeezed that heavy trigger like I was supposed to, and plopped five rounds outta ten into the bull at 15 yds with the rest around it in a 5" pattern. I ain't gonna touch it!

[rickleon]

If you shop around or attend gun shows you should be able to find a post ww II USGI replacement barrel that is chrome lined for $50 or less...
Got a few replacement barrels I'm looking at (only replacing it so I can shoot the heck out of it while saving the Ithaca's original HS), but most of the reasonably priced ones are sans link and pin. Is a press-fit by hand of a new pin to the barrel OK? Does it have to be staked in place? Any tips on selecting a correct replacement link?

Thanks

[Johnny Peppers]

I never quite understood the rational in removing the original barrel to save it while shooting the pistol. Barrels are much cheaper than pistols, and if you end up with a pristine barrel and a worn pistol you have depreciated the most important part.
I have a pre-70 series Gold Cup National Match that I bought used some 30 years back. I have probably put almost 10,000 rounds through it and the inside of the barrel shows no changes that I can see, but the grip frame and backstrap are very thin now. When I bought it they weren't particularily collectible, and I made it one of my shooters.

[rickleon]

...Barrels are much cheaper than pistols, and if you end up with a pristine barrel and a worn pistol you have depreciated the most important part.
I have a pre-70 series Gold Cup National Match that I bought used some 30 years back. I have probably put almost 10,000 rounds through it and the inside of the barrel shows no changes that I can see, but the grip frame and backstrap are very thin now. When I bought it they weren't particularily collectible, and I made it one of my shooters.
Wow. Though I doubt I'd shoot it THAT much, I see your point. I've presently two other 1911's, so I can divide the shooting sessions between all three with the time on the USGI Ithaca the least.

By the way, I have both 230 gr lead ball reloads and (mostly factory) FMJ at my disposal; what's best for the barrel's diet?

Many thanks for your wisdom.

[Johnny Peppers]

Lead bullets are extremely easy on barrels. A barrel fed a diet of nothing but lead bullets should last a lifetime.

[rickleon]

I have probably put almost 10,000 rounds through it and the inside of the barrel shows no changes that I can see, but the grip frame and backstrap are very thin now.
Not for one second doubting your wisdom, but how does extensive shooting affect the thickness of the backstrap, if my understanding of 1911 anatomy is correct? If the backstrap is that 1/16" thick wall between the mag well and mainspring housing/sear spring well, then I can understand how the repeated flexing of the sear spring might wear it down.

[Johnny Peppers]

I just picked up a decent Ithaca US Army M1911A1

Just like I assumed that you meant that you bought a decent Ithaca 1911A1, I assumed that everyone knew I was talking about the finish thinning, and not the metal of the grip straps. Sorry about that. I will try to be more descriptive next time.

[rickleon]

Johnny,

Yeah, I DID buy the Ithaca, and it IS pretty decent, but I've always considered a slightly worn finish part of the patina and therefore the charm of an older piece of machinery in original condition whether it be a pistol, camera or automobile; then that's just me I guess. Anyway, it's a good shooter (and it looks good--I'll send some pix as soon as I figure out how to upload them from my newly acquired digital camera into the computer), but I'll still keep your thoughts in mind and not thrash it. I've just replaced the recoil and FP springs with Wolff pieces, the former being a standard 16-pounder, because they both appeared compressed. The originals are bagged and stored.