Twenty years from the Chernobyl nuclear disaster

[John]

Today, it is the twentyth anniversary of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster, which occured during an experiment which was conducted in the 4th reactor of the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant (NPP), in Ukraine.

http://www.uic.com.au/graphics/Chernomap.gif

The above is a map of the area.

http://www.npp.hu/tortenelem/kepek/csernobil.jpg

As a result of the bad design of the reactors of that type, the core of the reactor actually melted, and the roof of the reactor building was blown out, thus releasing radioactivity to the surrounding area. The amount of radioactive materials released, were calculated to be 400 times those which were released during the Hiroshima atomic bomb explosion.

In this link (http://www.npp.hu/tortenelem/balesetek3-e.htm), you can find a detailed explanation of what lead to the accident and how it happened.

At that time, Ukraine (where Chernobyl is located) was part of the USSR, the Government of which decided not to inform the population of the area, until the 1st of May. As a result, the poor people living in the near-by city of Chernobyl, as well as in the small villages in the area, were never informed of the danger, and were allowed to walk around the area freely, thus exposing themselves to very high radiation levels.

No one knows the exact extend of the disaster, or how many people actually died from this accident. It is known that radioactivity from the accident went as far north as Sweden, south into Turkey and Greece and west, as far as France. Belarus, a neighbouring country, received more than 70% of the radioactive products which were blown up in Chernobyl's sky, when the reactor roof blowed up.

No one knows how many innocent people died in the vicinity of the NPP, or in the greater Ukranian area around Chernobyl. No one knows how many kids were borned with radiation caused disfigures or other problems. No one knows how many soldiers and firemen died, after they were forced to work with no protective gear, to extinguish the fire burning inside the reactor building and then to enclose the reactor in a cement cover. No one knows how many more people will die in the future, affected from the events of that day.

Why I write this? Well, Lena, my wife comes from Ukraine and in 1986 she was 19 years old. Her home town is less than 300 km from Chernobyl. For these people, the accident was much more than a report in the news.

Links:

- http://www.chernobyl.info/common/p_trans.gif The international communications platform on the longterm consequences of the Chernobyl disaster

http://www.chernobyl.info/

- The following site is done by a girl, who supposedly took a ride with her motorcycle through the Chernobyl area. It has been later accused that the trip was a fake, no motorcycles are allowed in that area. Still the pictures are quite interesting.

http://www.elenafilatova.com/

[Hawkmoon]

And the "new" encasement they installed over the remains of the old reactor and failed enclosure is now crumbing. It's a race to see if they can get a new, more permanent cover over it before the old one collapses and the whole thing starts over again.

Unfortunately, the Ukrainian government is still not very open and honest with their populace. I visited Kiev in the summer of 1999. One afternoon my hostess and I took a walk, heading from her apartment AWAY from the city so that I could see some new apartment flats under construction a few blocks away. Through the space between some buildings I saw a large structure and I asked my hostess what it was. She said she didn't know but she had heard it was some kind of factory.

After we walked a bit farther, I saw that all the overhead electrical wires in the area seemed to go toward (or come from) that structure. So we took an alternate route home to have a closer look. Once we got around to where we could see the far side, I immediately spotted the distinctive, open-topped cone that clearly said "NUCLEAR REACTOR." I said as much to my hostess and she thought I was joking! She was living 6 blocks from a nuclear reactor, didn't know it, didn't know how to recognize it when she saw it, and didn't believe it when told.

Her father worked at Chernobyl during the cleanup. He died of cancer from radiation poisoning in the summer of 2000.

[Kruzr]

The runaway was caused by an attempt to run the reactor at less than 30% output. This is below the safe range to control the reaction. They couldn't get the rods in postion in time to slow it down, hence the meltdown.

This is my Chernobyl story:

I was in north Kuwait and Iraq at the time of Chernobyl. I was the Engineering Manager for the Iraq-Kuwait gas pipeline. This pipeline was built as a means for Iraq to partially pay for the money that Kuwait gave them for the war with Iran. We had shrink sleeves being trucked across Iraq a few days after Chernobyl. There was concern throughout the middle east of the "cloud" from the plant working it's way toward the Med.

The trucks carrying the sleeves (these go over the pipeline welds), were contaminated with radiation. When they got to the Kuwait border, they were checked with geiger counters and then quarantined. In the meantime, the pipeline was exposed to the desert sun and during the hot day, would expand and then contract at night. This rubbed the coating off in places and we ended up having to do very costly repairs to over two miles of line.

Our construction manager was going crazy trying to figure out how to decontaminate the shipment so we could use it. He called someone at MIT that he was referred to. This professor told him that the trucks cannot be contaminated and it was more than likely road dust that it picked up. He said to wash the trucks with soap and water and then check them. We got permission to do that and sure enough.........they were clean after the washing. We lost 5 days of time and the repair costs were something on the order of $600K.

Sidenote: I read a few months ago that they were considering repairing and reactivating this pipeline. It was damaged in the first Gulf War since it ran about 25 feet off the roadway where the Iraq Army was caught in retreat.

[John]

That particular reactor design has some inherent flaws, by design. Lowering the control rods, an action which in almost every other nuclear reactor type, causes the reactor to shut down, in the RBMK reactor type, causes a small increase in radiation levels before shutting it down. This design characteristic was what played havoc at Chernobyl.

The reactor was already unstable (due to the experiment to run it at low power and other design flaws), so when the experiment was completed and the engineers try to shut it down (by lowering the control rods) the radiation level increased and brought the reactor to melt-down.

Hawkmoon is correct. The sarcophagus which currently encapsulates the melted core of the reactor, is neither air- or water-tight. It was build in a hurry to contain as much of the remaining radiation as possible, so it was never designed to contain the dangerous material for long. A small earthquake or even the drop of the huge, concrete cover of the old reactor building, which is now in almost vertical position, supported by debris of the explosion, can cause the whole sarcophagus to collapse.

The worst thing is that the people in the now independent Ukraine, have no idea of the danger which the old NPP constitutes for their lives.

[Hawkmoon]

The worst thing is that the people in the now independent Ukraine, have no idea of the danger which the old NPP constitutes for their lives.
And the government isn't telling them.

Nor is the government of Ukraine (and/or Russia) doing anything about it. Ukraine is essentially blackmailing the countries of western Europe to pay for a more permanent sarcophogus, under the pretext that if radiation is released again, all of Europe will suffer.

[John]

Correct on both counts. Thank God, at least the other 3 reactors of the same type, which were also located in Chernobyl NPP were permanently shut down. What I fail to understand, is how the other three reactors continued to work, after the 4th one had exploded. Were people really working in the contaminated area?? I have to do some more reading.

[Hunter]

If any of you all get the History channel they run an hour documentary on the Chernobyl disaster that I have seen a few times. It is really interesting but not in a good way. Some of the original footage that was shot moments before and after the disaster is shown and it really puts a face on the lives (needlessly) lost due to human error and the whole cover up. There were some very brave souls that sacrificed themselves trying to save others. Let's hope the deaths was not in vain and another disaster can be avoided. It would seem the price of the knowledged gained in this circumstance was a bit high.

[John]

Unfortunately, the price of the knowledge gained was extremely high, in this particular case. It's an unfortunate side-effect of nuclear power that it will always be high in such incidents.

I do not remember the details, but when I was a studend in the university, I had studied a bit in depth a similar "run-away" reactor, in the Three Miles Island NPP. If memory serves me right, at that incident the catastrophe was avoided in the last possible minute.

Nuclear power has its price, Unfortunately. And with the oil prices going up every day, something tells me that we are to see more NPP in the future.

[Hunter]

John I think you are correct about seeing more nuclear power in the future due to the oil (scam) price steady rising. I hope enough research will be done and plenty of safety measures implemented to avoid future disasters and loss of life.

[John]

It's a pity that we do not see alternative fuels becoming more wide-spread. It's a waste to pay these prices for gasoline, when hydrogen could be used for cars etc. But I assume there are interests which will keep all those things under cover, until it suits them, not the poor Joe Average.

[Hunter]

Ethanol is being slowly developed and I am sure the deep pockets of the oil industry will not allow us to see much (if any) benefit from it. I seems you are right on John about Joe Average taking the licks to keep the rich getting richer. I heard on the news where one of the VPs from Exxon retired with well over a $300 million bonus (that is not a type O) It would seem greed is running unchecked and we all are paying the price. I had heard the technology had been developed to get much more energy from gasoline through heating it in the tank and using the vapors as fuel not the gasoline itself for combustion. I better quit before I get too political. I would not want the moderators upset with me.

[garrettwc]

I missed John's link on the first read through. Sorry for the duplication.

ABC News Nightline did a report on this the other night. There are people still living there. Some were original residents who snuck back after everyone left. Others are scientists and construction folks(and their families :eek: ) mostly American who live there and work in the plant on the clean up. They are rebuilding the concrete seals on the outside, and working in the reactor room itself. The people working inside can only work in 15 minute shifts due to the high radiation levels.

[OD*]

Some of the aftermath

http://todayspictures.slate.com/inmotion/essay%5Fchernobyl/?GT1=8019

[Hunter]

Great link OD

[OD*]

Hey amigo.

I haven't been able to make it all the way thru it yet, those poor kids.

[Hunter]

Yes sir it was tough. I watched it twice and it pulls on the old heart strings. It got to me too.

[John]

Take a look at this site. I discovered it a few years ago. It is a diary, complete with photographs, of a motorcycle enthusiasts tour of the Chernobyl area after the disaster.

http://www.elenafilatova.com/

Scroll down to "Ghost Town and read through it. The original journal was 27 short chapters so it will take a while to go through, but worth it. There is a follow up visit she made in 2004 called "Land of the Wolves: further down on the main page.
I know about Elena's site, it's the second link in my first post here. Tnx.

[Old Man River]

I too saw this Jernal a few years ago. It's hard for me to understand a dissaster such as that was and harder yet to underwstand it could happen again.

[John]

OH, it did happen and it can happen again, alright.

If I am not mistaken there are still some reactors of that type, which haven't been shut down. And of course, the sarcophagus of Chernobyl is leaking every day, and it is not even sure that it can stay up for more. If that thing collapses, then what happened twenty years ago, will be nothing compared to the radiation that will be released if the sarcophagus collapses.

[edski]

Like many around the world, we have a distant but heartfelt connection. Our daughter-in-law lived near Warsaw when Chernobyl's cloud dusted the area. We now pray for her and also our granddaughter who, so far, both appear to have been spared ill-effects.

Chernobyl, Three Mile Island and almost certainly other events which have never become public knowledge are all testament to our common human arrogance.

A prayer: Lord, help me stay fully aware of, when I'm aiming my 1911, and when I'm driving my car, where they are pointed. They can both be tools to protect and to promote life. Help me use them in those ways.

[Old Man River]

Oh my!

I’ve just received rumors that this is a spoof and then I run across this very reliable source link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elena_Filatova

and this forum:
http://www.uer.ca/forum_showthread.asp?fid=1&threadid=8951

John, can you tell me if this Elena Filatova is a spoof?

[John]

Amen, Ed! End my best wishes for your daughter and grand-daughter.

[Old Man River]

Now I wish someone could explain to me that Wikipedia is an unreliable source.

I found out it can be edited by anyone.

[John]

John, can you tell me if this Elena Filatova is a spoof?

What can I say? I do not know her, I just found her site when I was looking for information on Chernobyl. I must assume she is a spoof, it is hard to believe her story and I agree with what others have said, it's kind of difficult to see such a motor bike in Ukraine, and even more difficult to see a Ukrainian girl riding it.

[Old Man River]

Me too. I worshiped this story for years. I don't know what a Ukrainian girl can do.

I wish someone could explain to me that Wikipedia is an unreliable source.

I found it could be edited by anyone.

[John]

I can tell you a few things about Ukrainian women, but one thing is for sure. I haven't seen too many bikes like that in Ukraine, and none of the bikes I saw was driven by a girl. Not that by itself this says much, but ....

One more thing, when I first found Elena's site, I have emailed her, telling her about Lena's origin etc. I never got an answer from her.

[Old Man River]

Well, the lack of an answer could be, she hasn’t picked up her email yet, or...it’s true about her and she wont reply. I don’t know. All I know is, I’m less trusting of that Lena's origin site now that I found out anyone can edit it.

I’m more trusting of this forum site:

http://www.uer.ca/forum_showthread....1&threadid=8951

It’s been a disappointment to me for what could be more interesting and romantic for an old man to read a story and see pictures of the mysterious Russia supposedly authored by a pretty young Ukrainian women.

The two things I’ve wanted to do are to visit the regions of Russia, China and talk to the people and now I haven’t the health to take a trip such as that.

Thanks for posting this story though.

[Charles Jenkins]

John bio-fuel mania has hit here in the USA midwest. The corn farmers are a prime target in the upcoming election. They are going to score big.

Many people are talking about energy but few understand basic physics. What is so good about oil is it was produced by energy from the sun over a vast period of time. Bio-fuel is pretty much a yearly crop. All you get is what comes from the sun in the growth season, not even a full year.

Leaving out the sun, the source of future energy very likely must be atomic. The fear of atomic energy here in the USA was pretty much built on hysteria from military testing and the academics dislike of the military.

In the USA we have 40,000 people killed in automobile accidents each year and there is no whimper from the press and the general population. (A special note to you tobacco kills vastly more.)

Hopefully your wife does not worry about the exposure too much. The actual results of fall out have been over reported. There are many hazards in life we must just be as careful as we can and keep on "tending our garden".

Charles

[Hawkmoon]

I wish someone could explain to me that Wikipedia is an unreliable source.

I found it could be edited by anyone.
Wikipedia is not the girl's web site. It's an on-line encyclopedia, on/in which anyone can upload an article, and after which anyone else can edit the article. When reading an entry in Wikipedia, you have no idea if the author is a colleague of Steven Hawking, or a homeless guy spending the afternoon in a public library to stay warm.

I'd call that "unreliable."

[mr45]

Wikipedia is not the girl's web site. It's an on-line encyclopedia, on/in which anyone can upload an article, and after which anyone else can edit the article...
That's right!
I did it 10 seconds ago!
I placed "www.m1911.org" as first external link at the end of the M1911 article, before that it was number 11 after STI-guns...
If I can change things that easy, it for sure is unreliable...
...even if I am not a homeless guy spending the afternoon in a public library to stay warm... :)

[USMC0231]

Greetings John,

There is a great site that was put up by a woman who lives in Russia, and took her motorcycle into the hot zone. There are lots of pictures and pretty good narration of her trip. The site is very good at illustrating what happens when things go horribly wrong. The site is listed below.

http://www.kiddofspeed.com/

Have a look and see what you think.

[mr45]

...a great site that was put up by a woman who lives in Russia, and took her motorcycle into the hot zone...
Hi Ron,
the posts 1, 17, 21 and 24 to 27 of this thread refer to that woman... ;)

[king66]

i was a nato soldier in germany when it blew. we were on exercise on the i think czec boarder. i was digging a trench. a officer came up told me to stop, asked if i had a shelter half. said lay on that and do your sentry. we wern't allowed to drink local water or milk . tested are personel dosmeters that we ware around or necks with our tags. mine read 197? good or bad i don't no, never told. sheep were dying in briton. i wonder how many nato soldiers will get cancer or something? i'm going to be 40 this year and i have probelms. who the **** know's.

[mr45]

...sheep were dying in briton...Can you please tell something more about that. I'm about your age and I do remember some details of the days after the blast, but nothing of dying sheep.
...i wonder how many nato soldiers will get cancer or something? i'm going to be 40 this year and i have probelms...I'm sorry to hear that! I remember we were told not to eat salad or vegetables from our gardens for some weeks and not to drink water from a burn or a well. The milk was tested for radiation by the dairy and we were told no to buy untested milk from farmers. My great-grandmother was he only one in our family who didn't care. It was the time of the year she loved to eat rhubarb-pie and rhubarb was one of the plants not to be eaten at all for some months. Granny told us: "In the newspaper was an article: It takes one or two decades to get cancer from that outfall and radiation. I'm now 90 years old, it's ok if I get cancer with 100. Give me my rhubarb-pie!" She died 1993 - without any cancer.

[king66]

mr45. apparently a few months after the accident sheep were dying in scotland. i can't remember were i read that. i think it might have been a "stars and stripes" article. how true i don't no. but i do remember there was a lot of concern about europe in general. the communists were not giving very much info back then, cold war and all. i'm sure i don't have to tell you, as you well know.