parts kit to build a 1911?

[DirtyHarry]

i want to build a 1911 to learn the gunsmithing side of it, and i found this kit: http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=180417 just wondering if it is actually worth it and if anyone knows what kinda parts are there(mainly the slide). i am not trying to build a race gun or something, i know this is probably cheapo parts but will they work decently or are they completely not worth it?

also does anyone know of a good book for gunsmithing/fitting parts on 1911s?

[Hawkmoon]

I am 99.9% certain that the Sportsmans Guide kit is the same as the Sarco kit, and you can buy it cheaper from Sarco (www.sarcoinc.com -- search on "1911," click the first search result at the top of the list, scroll down to the kits). I bought it from Sportsmans Guide before I knew about Sarco. I put the kit onto a Caspian frame, and it works!

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=12773

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=11509&highlight=junk+parts

The modern slide (the one you are looking at) is generic -- no identification on it at all. They offer another kit with a traditional GI-style slide that may be using Sarco's remanufactured Brazilian mil-surp slides. That's not a bad thing, if true -- those are forged slides made by Imbel, the same company that makes Springfield Armory pistols, and just about all the arms for the Brazilian military.

The rest of the parts are also generic, and probably nothing to write home about, but as Wichaka noted in his post in the thread I linked you to, it's an inexpensive way to learn how a 1911 goes together. Those parts WILL create a functional firearm, yet if you do screw something up, it's easily replaced and you haven't ruined a costly, premium grade component.

[DirtyHarry]

sarco doesnt have the tactical sights that i saw, i was wondering if u liked yours and if they are a novak style cut? If you dont mind me asking what kind of a price you ended up with after all was said and done? if you know of any good books on fitting parts, i would appreciate it. also what kind of tools did you use when building yours?

[DirtyHarry]

i will check to see if sarco will change out the G.I. slide in their kit for the "new style" tactical slide. i am still curious if this slide has the novak sight cuts or some proprietary cut.

[Hawkmoon]

On the "current production" style slide I received, the sights were already mounted and I have not removed them. The cut does not appear to be large enough to be a Novak, and it definitely isn't a Bo-Mar. I suspect it's a standard GI sight dovetail. I like them fine -- they work, and that's all I was looking for.

For books, I'd recommend the Kuhnhausen books (both volumes), available from Brownells.

For fitting mine together, I used a couple of fine files, some very fine wet-dry automotive sandpaper, and I bought a special stone for polishing the sear for the trigger job -- but that wasn't necessary to make the gun fire, I did that to bring the trigger pull down from a bit over 6 pounds to about 4-1/2 pounds. Oh, and I bought a "bench block" from Brownells, for punching pins in and out. Gunsmith punches would be nice, but I'm a Jeep hobbyist and I was able to use some punches I have that were bought at Sears.

The slide came prefinished. The frame I bought was in the white (unfinished). I did the final polishing, using the wet-dry sandpaper, then I cold blued it using Brownells' Oxpho-Blue. It isn't perfect, but it's better than I expected it to be. The recon rail made polishing the frame more difficult; I think I would have gotten a much better finish with a non-rail frame.

At one time I had figured out about what the gun cost me. At this point I no longer recall, but probably somewhere around $450 to $500. I know I could have bought a Rock Island for the same or less than what my finished project cost, but I wouldn't have learned anything if I had done that.

[Gammon]

I still think you are much better off buying your parts from Brownells. Novak makes a high visibility rear sight which fits in the standard dovetail and gives you the same sight picture as Bomar. Available from Brownells for $23.96. You install a higher than stock front sight (.200 or higher) and then file it down to set your elevation. Windage adjustment is done by moving the rear sight in the dovetail. I have used this method on several of my 1911s; you get a $200 set of sights for less than $40. I have used the Novaks and Bomars for years and can see no advantage to the more expensive Bomars, except adjustment which you only do once!

[DirtyHarry]

thanks for the input i might do that sight set in the future. the point of this build is to learn useful gunsmithing skills without destroying my 1911's. cost is definetly an issue in this and using these parts from sarco will cost about $200 for all except frame, and depending on which frame i decide on its $60 to about $325. If i prove worthy and the gun works well, parts will be changed out with better quality ones piece by piece. I ordered Kuhnhausen's first book and it should be here tomorrow, this will help with my decisions alot.

[Hawkmoon]

I chose the cheap kit for the same reason: money WAS an object. Plus the reason referred to by Wichaka: I figured I would feel a lot less badly if I trashed a $5 part than if I trashed a $50 part. I'll freely admit that I wouldn't trust the Sarco parts in a duty weapon, but as a learning tool and a range beater, I think it's an okay way to go.

I'm not even really worried about upgrading. If something breaks, I suppose I would replace with a "quality" part -- but if I find that I'm not shooting the pistol that much, I just might replace in kind with a cheap replacement from Sarco.

The "upgrades" I have made were generated by the fact that my aesthetic sensibilities were offended by the mismatch of a contemporary-appearing slide and sights, a frame with a light rail, and a standard GI type grip safety and wide spur GI hammer. To make the pistol look more integrated I installed a Wilson drop-in beavertail grip safety and a Wilson value line loop hammer and matching sear. And I ditched the plastic grip panels in favor of a pair of inexpensive, reproduction double diamond checkered wood grips. And I swapped in a flat mainspring housing because I am not comfortable with the arched ones.

At this point I consider it "done."

[DirtyHarry]

i will probably wind up with similar mods, i think i will also be logging info with this gun to see how well these parts hold up to my abuse. does anyone know a good coating other than regular blueing? i see alot of this type of stuff reguires baking in an oven, i dont mind this.

[Hawkmoon]

I seriously considered using Brownells' Gun-Kote, but in the end sanity prevailed and I decided it wasn't worth offending my wife by baking a gun in the kitchen oven.

[DirtyHarry]

seems alittle tough to get a good spray job when the part is 100 degrees

[Gammon]

"Cheap" isn't cheap in the long run. I have been doing this for almost 30 years and have found that any project is better done with quality parts. Why play around with junk? I would never try to plate/coat a pistol myself. I have several guns still in the white, waiting to be sent to the plater; I just can't admit that I'm done and the gun is finished. I keep thinking about the next mod which might screw up a plating job. Actually, its not that bad;if you lube a gun that's still in the white so that it doesn't rust, it looks like SS.

[DirtyHarry]

well the finish is following the them of the rest of the project. its cheap and its an experience, like using a cold blueing you will know if it works well to touch up a part or not and see the outcome for yourself.

[Hawkmoon]

seems alittle tough to get a good spray job when the part is 100 degrees
100 degrees isn't very hot. The water temperature in most hot tubs is set at 104 degrees, IIRC. However, if the pre-heating is a concern, you might consider DuraCoat from Lauer Custom Weaponry. It's in their ads in Shotgun News if you get that, or you can go to www.lauerweaponry.com. The material is fairly inexpensive, if you already have an airbrush, or you can buy a complete starter kit (including airbrush) for $49.95.

From my limited experience trying to use a spray gun for D.I.Y. automotive repairs, I considered this product and then allowed reality to set in. I'm 99% certain I could never get an application without runs and blemishes. That's why I settled on cold bluing. I then read up on several different cold bluing products offered by Brownells and settled on Oxpho-Blue as being the one that seemed best for a complete frame. I was satisfied with the results, but I applied the solution with cotton swabs in accordance with the instructions. If I were going to do it again, I would buy a larger bottle and make up a dip tank for full immersion of the frame.

[scooter]

I havent (yet) heard of any that would "NOT" chip under heavy use.
Two friends have tried 2 different types(1 bake on laquer from brownells and I believe the gunkote in a spray can was the other) and neither look good anymore! Safety worn thru,slide stop the same magwells chipped beyond belief from rapid reloads etc etc. I would STRONGLY recommend either cold blue or have it plated proffesionally when you are satisfied you are finished.http://forum.m1911.org/images/icons/icon9.gif

[DirtyHarry]

even though i hate the look of two tone, i plan on getting a SS frame and just using the slide with the finish it comes with, if i later decided to put a finish on would the ss look different than the slide if i use the same finish on both?

[DirtyHarry]

i checked out the duracoat site, i have autobody painting experience and might think of this for my finish, the only thing im worried about is if i screw up its supposedly pretty difficult to strip off.

[Jabberwalky]

I have been following your thread. I bought a Sportsmans guid kit 2 years ago and have not been able to find a frame that I feel I can afford. Where did you guys get your frames and in what price range. Second question, Like DirtyHarry I have not done this befor, how much fitting of parts did you have to do, and how hard was it to do?

Any advice you can send is appreciated.

Jabberwalky

[Hawkmoon]

The price for the Caspian frame I used was over $200. It was more than I had planned to spend, but John talked me into it. Probably due to the quality of Caspian products, I had to do NO fitting, other than shaving the outside edges of the rails very slightly to allow the slide to go on. (Rails were oversize -- Caspian tells you that.) Everything else dropped in except the trigger, which also comes oversize so it can be fitted to the frame slot.

Brownells has Essex frames for around $100, and there a place that advertises in Shotgun News that sells Armscor frames for $69. I doubt you'll find a frame for less than that.

[DirtyHarry]

for quality frame the best i have seen is essex at $100, caspians list for $175 and you do need to remember that it will cost you to send one to a FFL and you need a pistol permit to get it. Both the frames i mentioned are in the white, if you want stainless it is only $10 more for either.

P.S. the essex frame was at http://www.sarcoinc.com/
you can get the caspians all over, the price is from them directly