Just bought a norinco 1911, what can I do myself

[keng]

Hey guys I need your help. I just picked up my norinco 1911. Nothing fancy, it is a basic model, but I am wondering what I can do myself instead of paying a gun smith. Things I want to do are beaver tail, diffrent hammer, lighten trigger pull, front and rear sights, and the thumb safety.
What can I do myself.

[John]

As the Norinco comes from the factory, the only things I would change is the sights and maybe the hammer/grip safety because the standard setup is chewing up my hand.

The sights are very small, a set of higher profile ones, like the ones Colt is currently using would do wonders to improve the sight picture.

The grip safety and hammer, would have to go for me, for the above reason. A Commander grip safety with a round hammer would do just fine.

And then a new set of springs, and you are done.

Trigger pull, read the "Poor Man's trigger job" in the Technical Issues Forum.

[N7CAV]

Keng, I tried to post this in your other thread, but had a cookie malfunction
:-)

Attached are some "What not to do" pictures of an M1991 Colt Commander.

This is my spare parts weapon. It has been dropped, filed, grinded, attacked with a dremel tool, neglected, used to test proof loads, fired underwater, thrown into everything from a tackle box to an ammo can, used for various (countless) missions to the desert, firing range, camping & fishing trips, as well as used to train new users on firearms in general, as a "trainer weapon" for new 1911 users, ect . . . It's been rebuilt, disassembled and re-re-built probably 100 times. It still groups on a quarter at 25 feet... and under two inches at 25 yards... But:

1. Never did a dremel, file or sand-paper touch the breech face, feed ramp or frame rails or remove steel from the frame location around the grip safety...

You can do a lot with a 1911 with very little in the way of gunsmith experience or tools... Just remember Dirty Harry or whoever that said "A man's got to know his limitations."

I'd STRONGLY SUGGEST that you memorize my little "Rule #1" above. Most Anything else a gunsmith can correct. But don't fear the pistol. If properly disassembled and reassembled, a 1911 can be torn apart (armory stripped) probably 10,000 times with no real concern for wear and tear.

The other post made a good point on drop-in grip safeties - they suck.
The best thing to do with your new 1911 is shoot it at least 500 times before you start modding and changing parts. I'm an advocate of cleaning after each trip to the range... But fire at least 500 rounds over some period of time before doing anything to the gun.

You will probably want a new trigger. Easy install.
Trigger pull / trigger-job . . . I'm in the camp of do it your self; But it depends on what kind of 1911. You can order a "drop-in trigger job" that is nothing more than a tuned hammer, sear and sear spring combination. I just bend the seer spring fingers and if it's between 4-5 pounds, good enough. My "serious" weapons are sent to the gunsmith for trigger work however - I like 1/16" travel and a crisp 4.5 pound release.

You can change anything you want on your gun - I would not advise you to mess with ejectors, plunger tubes or fitting grip safeties. Same with sights, feed ramps and serious trigger work.

A good smith will hone the rails, tighten the slide/frame fit and tune the action. This is best done after the 500-1000 round mark. That will make his life pretty easy, as he'll see the wear marks and natural fit of your weapon better. It will also give you a good baseline to compare the 250 dollars you gave him against what you've already done on the range.

There are as many opinions on what to put on your 1911 as there are on what to avoid. (And this is where we get to suggest such things :-)

If I had just one 1911, it would be a standard Series-70 Colt Government powder-finished Stainless with a narrow (short length) serrated trigger, extended slide-stop, memory-groove beaver tail, flat checkered mainspring housing, standard wood (double-diamond) grips and 1/16th" travel to a crisp 4.5# release. I'd keep everything else as-is.

My Kimber has an ambi thumb safety, and it has a habit of getting bumped to the armed position. Everything else has a standard thumb safety with full-length plunger-tube spring to keep the sucker where I want it.

If I was still in Phoenix, I'd let you borrow this beast to play with until you're comfortable tearing down your own weapon. Either way, here is the ultimate in shadetree 1911's . . .

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h124/n7cav/DCP_0002.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h124/n7cav/JunkGun.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h124/n7cav/JunkColtR.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h124/n7cav/JunkColtL.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h124/n7cav/PartsColtR.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h124/n7cav/PartsColtL.jpg

[Old Man River]

Now that’s what I call a very informative post, Nice. Thanks. I will study that more, later.

As yet, I haven’t had the training to even break down my Norinco yet. I hope to do this soon from the person, a gunsmith I bought it from.

[N7CAV]

The first two pics are what condition that colt is normally in - parts box.

The second two were an example of what never to do - stick junk like lights or lasers on a gun.

The last two are what a spare Officer's model hammer and drop-in grip safety look like on an unmodified frame. I can't remember the maker of that particular grip safety, but they work far better than others I've seen in the "Drop-in" category. The term "Drop-In" for 1911's is the same as "Plug-and-Pray" was to computers in the days of Windows 95.

When you get to Arizona, look up Dillion Precision - they have a variety of 1911 parts; I suggest a new set of grips if yours has the plastic ones. Also grab some Wilson Combat magazines, 1000 rounds of ball ammo and a good dillion pistol and magazine holster.

The best gunsmith in Arizona is just up the street from there; His name is Gordon and he owns BigBore (Not sure if this is a plug or a commercial post at this point; Just a good reference based on experience with both Dillion and Gordy . . . :-) If you're on a budget, Nelson Ford is also in Phoenix. The difference between Nelson and Gordon is the type of work they do. Nelson works on Smith & Wesson revolvers, general gunsmithing (rifles / ect . .) and has a lot of 1911's in circulation with his fingerprints on them (including a few of mine) - Gordy is a metalsmith, a master of the art, and builds custom 1911's from the ground up. Nelson will do trigger and reliability work at a fair price. Gordon will make your Norinco blend flawlessly with any aftermarket component, as well as do sights and detailed finish work. They are both well known and honest men. They both do good work. They both have very unique personalities as well - so you may want to meet both and see which one you get along with better. :-)

If you want to borrow a short trigger to see which you like best, let me know.

- tC

[OJ]

Possibly the best advice might be to spend several months at the range shooting your new 1911 before deciding what, if anything, you might want to change.

It's my impression that the leading cause of failures and destruction of 1911 type pistols is modifications after market. Most of them are manufactured by companies who are pretty knowledgeable about what they do.

:D :D

[shadow33]

Hey guys I need your help. I just picked up my norinco 1911. Nothing fancy, it is a basic model, but I am wondering what I can do myself instead of paying a gun smith. Things I want to do are beaver tail, diffrent hammer, lighten trigger pull, front and rear sights, and the thumb safety.
What can I do myself.
I have done most of the changes you mentioned above to my Norinco but if you and not very Familiar with it I would not attempt it yourself only thing i have left to do is change my sights and a gunsmith will have to fit them for me and that is comming soon I put several hundred rds through my norinco before modifying it I strongly suggest you do the same get to know your weapon before modifying it ;)

[N7CAV]

Now that’s what I call a very informative post, Nice. Thanks. I will study that more, later.

As yet, I haven’t had the training to even break down my Norinco yet. I hope to do this soon from the person, a gunsmith I bought it from.

You have the right cards in your hand, OM; I'm happy to know a gunsmith is there to offer the training. My teacher was a US Army E-7 Drill Sergeant with a seriously poor opinion of my slick sleeves and buzzed ears. Heh . . . Maybe all that yelling helped. I had never been very good with pistols until then. Shot expert on the range, and the roots grew from there.

El Patron, Jose (John C.): Would a good poll would be how many of us carried a 1911 in the service? I was talking to a fellow that had served for ten years and needed to catch myself before saying "What do you mean you never tore one down?" - The last unit I served in with 1911's was the 8th Cavalry, in Gelnhausen, W. Germany. We also had the M3 "Grease Guns". I went to 3D ACR in Ft. Bliss and they handed me some 9mm looking thing and an M16A2 rife... don't get me started on that . . . heh . . .

Anyway, my compliments to you on your new firearm and the smith who is sharing his expertise.

- tC

[John]

El Patron, Jose (John C.): Would a good poll would be how many of us carried a 1911 in the service?

Good idea, why don't you start it?? LoRL, you have the rights to start a poll, you know!

[Old Man River]

I was never issued a 1911, but had one handed to me while in the navy as a shore patrol and had to carry one while delivering classified messages and documents. I got to shoot them while in the navy, but as you’ve found out, no one teaches you how to disassemble and assemble one in the navy, unless you’re lucky.

I looked at the 1911 handbook until my eyes rolled backward and laid it down for further studies, hah.

[keng]

I must say thank you guys for all your help and info especially on the advice in AZ and the two guns smiths. I will be needing them for my other pistols and rifles. I will be going out to the range this weekend, but know right off the bat I want a lighter trigger and better sights. I read here that we should rebuild the pistol after a 1000 rds. Is this true, I shoot that in 2-3 times at the range.

I too just got out of the military, never carried the 1911, but was issued the 9mm. but I as of now donot know how to break down the 1911, I will figure it out or have someone help me at the range. Just wantd to say thanks for your help and I look forward to some good shooting in AZ soon.


The first two pics are what condition that colt is normally in - parts box.

The second two were an example of what never to do - stick junk like lights or lasers on a gun.

The last two are what a spare Officer's model hammer and drop-in grip safety look like on an unmodified frame. I can't remember the maker of that particular grip safety, but they work far better than others I've seen in the "Drop-in" category. The term "Drop-In" for 1911's is the same as "Plug-and-Pray" was to computers in the days of Windows 95.

When you get to Arizona, look up Dillion Precision - they have a variety of 1911 parts; I suggest a new set of grips if yours has the plastic ones. Also grab some Wilson Combat magazines, 1000 rounds of ball ammo and a good dillion pistol and magazine holster.

The best gunsmith in Arizona is just up the street from there; His name is Gordon and he owns BigBore (Not sure if this is a plug or a commercial post at this point; Just a good reference based on experience with both Dillion and Gordy . . . :-) If you're on a budget, Nelson Ford is also in Phoenix. The difference between Nelson and Gordon is the type of work they do. Nelson works on Smith & Wesson revolvers, general gunsmithing (rifles / ect . .) and has a lot of 1911's in circulation with his fingerprints on them (including a few of mine) - Gordy is a metalsmith, a master of the art, and builds custom 1911's from the ground up. Nelson will do trigger and reliability work at a fair price. Gordon will make your Norinco blend flawlessly with any aftermarket component, as well as do sights and detailed finish work. They are both well known and honest men. They both do good work. They both have very unique personalities as well - so you may want to meet both and see which one you get along with better. :-)

If you want to borrow a short trigger to see which you like best, let me know.

- tC

[robertbank]

"I read here that we should rebuild the pistol after a 1000 rds. Is this true, I shoot that in 2-3 times at the range. "

Heck no. Maybe change out the recoil spring every couple thousand rounds, clean it as you see fit, I like to do mine after each range session but I think that is a bit anal. The Norks certainly can use a trigger tune up and new sights have to be on anyones list unless they really do like the mil-spec sights. I left them on one of my Norincos but it isn't because they are easy to pick up that is for sure.

Take Care

[John]

Keng, you got a fine pistol there. As I said in my first post, if I were to get a Nork, I would just change the sights and the springs. Then I would replace the trigger parts (hammer/sear/sear spring/disconnector) to improve its trigger pull (or do the Poor Man's Trigger Job) and change the grip safety to a Colt Commander one, since the standard setup is eating flesh from my hand.

[N7CAV]

[QUOTE=keng]I must say thank you guys for all your help and info especially on the advice in AZ and the two guns smiths. I will be needing them for my other pistols and rifles. I will be going out to the range this weekend, but know right off the bat I want a lighter trigger and better sights. I read here that we should rebuild the pistol after a 1000 rds. Is this true, I shoot that in 2-3 times at the range. QUOTE]

Best of luck in AZ -

Remember there is big difference between maintenance and rebuild - All a 1911 would need after 1500-2000 rounds would be a recoil spring; General surface inspection and complete cleaning.

(Please help me on this maintenance/inspection list guys . . .)

After each 1000 rounds:

1. Clean and perform a complete functions check.

2. Inspect slide for hairline cracks (Look closely at the recoil plug area)

3. Inspect the plunger tube (Click the thumb safety up and down to see if the plunger tube wiggles . . .)

4. Check the ejector (Wiggle it to make sure it is still secure on the frame.)

5. Inspect the extractor claw to ensure there are no cracks or chips.

6a. Manually depress the firing pin to ensure it pokes through the breech face - Kind of a quick way to tell if it's broken. Also check the firing pin hole on the breech face. Firing pins have a way of staying together inside the spring and then battering with kinetic energy- Fist fighting primers.

6b. Pull the firing pin and extractor and inspect them outside of the weapon.

7. Check grip panels for security - No need to overtighen grip screws - 1911's hate that.

8. Inspect the slide stop for cracks.

9. Inspect the barrel link and lugs for excessive wear.

10. Check front and rear sights for loose fit.


All this can be don during your cleaning. No need to completely rip the gun apart unless you want to. I'm sure the 1911 community can better complete/update this list - Just basic inspection and maintenance after 1500 rounds.

After 5000 rounds the gun needs to be detail stripped to inspect the firing group assembly.

Have fun!

- tC



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