New GI JAMMING

[Thumper2t]

just got a new GI today and after about 60 rounds, I started running into problems. three different types of ammo began to fail hlafway through the loading process. After fired, the new round is fed alomst all the way in but the slide stops before its compleatly closed. With a little pressure, i can use the heel of my hand to push the back of the slide all the way forward and continue shooting.

I cleaned the wepon very well after shooting, but running magazines through by hand, im still experiencing the jamming issue.

Do i have to take it to a gunsmith already?
Please let me know

[wichaka]

Hopefully Tuner will chime in here, as malfunctions are more his game.

But you may have to polish the feed ramp, the barrel throat, and entry. If there are any tool marks DO NOT sand them out. Just smooth everything up. Pay close attention to where the bullet enters the chamber, its the break over point from the throat to the chamber, it seems to come somewhat sharp from SA. Take 220 grit emory cloth or the like and take the edge off it, and NO MORE. Then follow up with 320, then 600.

Also the extractor tension probably needs to be looked at. SA's have terrible extractors. Its getting to the point that they should just leave them out entirely........the gun would work better! :D

If the extractor has too much tension, it will cause what you're experiencing. Check out the tech section for tuning extractors.

Tuner if you read this one, I think you should post one on extractor tuning, I know your solution is better than the one that's posted now.

But Thumper........don't get me wrong. The current post on extractors is very good. Tuners is a bit more user friendly.........

Good luck.......

[stans]

Extractor tension never increases with use, it decreases. It is a likely possibility that the magazine springs are failing. Have you tried a different magazine in this pistol? Also, make sure the area around the extractor is clean, all sorts of junk gets into the extractor tunnel and will inhibit proper extractor movement.

[1911Tuner]

How-DEE!

First...The most likely places to have a magazine-related stoppage is on the
top round during a reload from slidelock...and on the last round...but that's not the only thing that can cause it...especially on the top round thing. Since
Springfield's OEM extractors rarely have too much tension, we can *probably* rule it out. There is a quick way to check for that in your case.

Remove the extraqctor and firing pin from the slide. It's easy. Lock the slide,
insert a full magazine, and hit the slide release. If it feeds okay...it's the extractor. If not...it's probably a little stem bind. Note that even if it IS a
stem bind, removing the extractor may reduce the resistance to feeding just enough to let the round chamber. Kinda tough to diagnose it exactly by goin' into it blind here.

Stans suggestion of a weak magazine spring is another point, but I don't know if it applies here. That one is more likely to show up at a lower point in the magazine...and usually on the last round. Test it by loading two rounds in the magazine and putting the pistol into battery by tripping the slidestop to release the slide. If it feeds...it ain't the magazine spring.

On the jammed rounds...Have you noticed a crescent-shaped mark just below the case mouth? Take note the next time it does it. Also, when it stops,
push the muzzle against the edge of a table or other solid object....lightly.
If the slide goes to battery, you've got excessive stem bind.

It could also be somethin' as simple as a burr or rough spot on the breechface. Check for that. It's usually around the firing pin port.

Check for a sharp edge at the top of the barrel throat. If there is one, you can probably squash your bug quick and easy. Use the tip of a good pocketknife to lightly scrape the corner just enough to break the sharp edge
with a light bevel. Don't get carried away...Just a tiny bit. Polish it with 600-grit wet or dry paper on your fingertip. Even if the corner is pretty smooth,
a light bevel will help with the feeding...just don't remove too much metal there. Enough to see a line about the width of the thickness of a sheet of
typing paper, or just a tiny bit wider is good.

Standin' by...

[Thumper2t]

Im thinking I have excessive stem bind. It is scraping the cases up, and with some extra pressure, the weapon will go on into battery.

[ronkesser]

Thumper please please above all please do not hit the slide to make it return to closed, this sudden force can cause your firing pin to fly forward doing so can cause AD

[1911Tuner]

Thumper please please above all please do not hit the slide to make it return to closed, this sudden force can cause your firing pin to fly forward doing so can cause AD

Howdy ronkesser,

Not tryin' to pick a fight here..but is that based on experience or what somebody told you? The reason that I ask is because the inertial firing pin
moves forward with much more force during the normal cycling of the pistol than by bumping the back of the slide to push it into battery. If the gun will fire in the manner that you describe, there's somethin' wrong that needs to be fixed...pronto.

Thumper!

A scraped case may or may not be a sign of stem bind...but probably not.
A hard stem bind will show as a distinctive mark that you can feel with a thumbnail. Your scraped cases are probably due to a light stem-bind, and cleaning up the top of the throat may well squash your bug. If not, just sing out. It's usually somethin' simple.

[Thumper2t]

i have a wilson mag on the way...we will see if that helps or if im of to the smith for some polishings

ill keep you guys posted

[Thumper2t]

BTW this is kind of stuck up, but what are the chances of sending it back to springfield and "making them do somthing about it".

[ronkesser]

I posted that because springfield has a waring in the manual about that happining, and how you should never force the slide into place. I have never had this problem but then again i have never tryed this. As my father always told me its better to on the safe side rather then have a hole somewhere on your body.

[1911Tuner]

I posted that because springfield has a waring in the manual about that happining, and how you should never force the slide into place. I have never had this problem but then again i have never tryed this. As my father always told me its better to on the safe side rather then have a hole somewhere on your body.

Ah! Now I understand. Springfield is coverin' all bases in this age of litigation.
I haven't read Springfield's new manual yet...Guess I need to.

Notice that Colt advises not loading the gun until you're ready to shoot it...or they used to. Haven't read one of their manuals in about 25 years, either.

Fact is, you can put the slide in battery, lower the hammer, and hit the back of the hammer with a bigger hammer and not fire the gun unless the firing pin is out of spec,(Long enough to protrude from the port) or the firing pin spring is too worn out to hold the firing pin against the stop...and even then, it's doubtful that the gun will fire.

Springfield's new ILS system uses a firing pin spring that seems to be about 25% stiffer than the standard spring...which makes the gun able to withstand repeated drops straight down on the muzzle onto concrete from a height of about 15 feet without firing. The standard set-up will "only" allow a drop from 8-10 feet. I may be off on the figures a little...I don't keep up with all the new stuff like I should...I have, however, been building, salvaging, rebuilding, repairing, cussin' and prayin' over the 1911s since 1964...and I've never seen one fire by bumping the slide to put it into battery. Note that a bad trigger job will allow the gun to slam-fire and possibly go full-auto, but that's a trigger group malfunction not related to the firing pin.

Think about how hard the slide goes to battery during normal operation. If the gun would slam-fire that easily, it would go full auto every time the trigger was pulled.

Luck to ya, lad! Keep shootin'!

Tuner

[John]

We have to assume that Springfield has that warning, in case the firing pin is (for some unforseeable reason) protruding through the breech face. I can not see how a push on the back of the slide (as described here) can cause an accidental discharge, from the firing pin moving forward, no way.

My 2 Eurocents only.

[tifoso]

Thumper, I'm quite certain the Wilson mags will fix your problem. I've had the same problem myself with the GI factory mag. Tell us how it goes.

[1911Tuner]

We have to assume that Springfield has that warning, in case the firing pin is (for some unforseeable reason) protruding through the breech face. I can not see how a push on the back of the slide (as described here) can cause an accidental discharge, from the firing pin moving forward, no way.

My 2 Eurocents only.

Givin' it a little more thought...I'd tend to believe that Springfield is just bein' overly-cautious in the event that the firing pin channel gets badly fouled and holds the pin forward...which would take a helluva lotta gunk to offer enough resistance to firing pin rebound to cause it to fire the primer. So much resistance that the gun probably wouldn't fire when the trigger was pulled.

Let's use this to help the new guys understand the design a little better.

If the firing pin were so badly out of spec that it was protruding AND unable to move rearward due to being captive at the back by the firing pin stop, the gun wouldn't feed at all. As the rim case rim tried to slip under the extractor, the top edge would hit the firing pin and stop it cold before it even got started.

If the firing pin were long enough to protrude from the breechface, and was still free to move backward...in the event of a stoppage, the hammer would be cocked and offer no resistance to that movement...and spring tension alone wouldn't be enough to fire the primer...or at most, maybe a one-in-a-million chance...maybe.

If the pin were held forward by fouling, but WAS able to move backward...
even with some resistance...it's highly unlikely that it would cause the primer to fire. Possible...but not likely. I think that this is the reasoning behind Springfield's warning.

Educated guess...Springfield is bein' careful to cover all possible scenarios.
Makes sense in this age of litigation, even though the chances of firing the gun by bumping the slide to battery is about as remote as bein' struck by lightning at midnight as you cross the Sahara Desert on the way to redeem your winning Powerball Lottery ticket. The physics just don't work out.

Cheers all!

Tuner

[John]

Makes sense in this age of litigation, even though the chances of firing the gun by bumping the slide to battery is about as remote as bein' struck by lightning at midnight as you cross the Sahara Desert on the way to redeem your winning Powerball Lottery ticket. The physics just don't work out.

I didn't know they have Powerball Lottery in Sahara, but then again, Mr. Kadafi has joined the West, so who knows?

LoL

P.S. : El Commandante is in a happy mood, his ADSL connection is finally working! Hurray!

[1911Tuner]

LOL John...last I heard, ol Moamar was drivin' a Chevy Tahoe and singin'
God Bless America while sippin' on a Pepsi-Cola and diggin' on the Country-Western tunes via satellite radio and whistlin' God Bless America durin' the breaks. :D

When you comin' to visit the U.S.of A? if ya get into North Carolina, I'll
take ya to the range for a thousand or two rounds of my funky reloaded...on me. Bring the Lady Commandante if ya want to. Ya'll will feel right at home...More Greek restaurants around than there are McDonalds. :cool:

[USMC2111]

I have fired around 300 rounds through my GI so far, and it occasionally jams, the second time I fired it jammed 15-20 times with one hundred rounds. I took it back to the range a couple of days ago and put another hundred rounds through it with only 4 or 5 jams. The pistol fails to go to full battery about 1/4 " give or take. It happens with both the issued mag, and an 8 round Mac Ger. I have noticed that the spent casings have a flattened spot near the case opening? Is this the exessive stem bind you are talking about? What is exessive stem bind and how do I fix it? I asked the salesman at the range what the deal was and he said he has the same gun and the same problem and that it just needed to be broken in, since the tolerances were so tight. That could be the case since it only jammed 4 or 5 times my last time out. Any advice? I called Springfield and they said it would take about 4-6 weeks! No thanks I will fix it by myself, with the members of this site's guidence. I have the tools, but have never worked on a 1911, as only Recon, shoots them and you have to be a precision small arms repair men to fix them. But if you want me to fix your Beretta i'm your man ha ha.

Semper Fi

[John]

LOL John...last I heard, ol Moamar was drivin' a Chevy Tahoe and singin'
God Bless America while sippin' on a Pepsi-Cola and diggin' on the Country-Western tunes via satellite radio and whistlin' God Bless America durin' the breaks. :D

When you comin' to visit the U.S.of A? if ya get into North Carolina, I'll
take ya to the range for a thousand or two rounds of my funky reloaded...on me. Bring the Lady Commandante if ya want to. Ya'll will feel right at home...More Greek restaurants around than there are McDonalds. :cool:
Tuner,

If I come to US, I don't want to eat Greek food, I have enough of that over here now. I'll take a fat juicy steak and some fries though, or whatever other local delicacy you have to offer. LoL.

[John]

I have fired around 300 rounds through my GI so far, and it occasionally jams, the second time I fired it jammed 15-20 times with one hundred rounds. I took it back to the range a couple of days ago and put another hundred rounds through it with only 4 or 5 jams. The pistol fails to go to full battery about 1/4 " give or take. It happens with both the issued mag, and an 8 round Mac Ger. I have noticed that the spent casings have a flattened spot near the case opening? Is this the exessive stem bind you are talking about? What is exessive stem bind and how do I fix it? I asked the salesman at the range what the deal was and he said he has the same gun and the same problem and that it just needed to be broken in, since the tolerances were so tight. That could be the case since it only jammed 4 or 5 times my last time out. Any advice? I called Springfield and they said it would take about 4-6 weeks! No thanks I will fix it by myself, with the members of this site's guidence. I have the tools, but have never worked on a 1911, as only Recon, shoots them and you have to be a precision small arms repair men to fix them. But if you want me to fix your Beretta i'm your man ha ha.

Semper Fi
Give it some more time (and rounds), it will probably fix itself.

Rgds

[1911Tuner]

Howdy Gyrene, and Semper Fi.

The dent isn't caused by stem bind...It's caused by the empty case kickin' out at 3 O'Clock and hittin' the lower edge of the port. Stem bind causes
a crescent-shaped mark on the jammed round just a little below the case mouth.

My guess is that you've either got a little too much tension on the extractor, or the extractor channel is gunked up with carbon and the rim can't slip under the hook like it should. Remove the extractor and clean it and the channel.
If that doesn't fix it, sing out and we'll figger it out. It's usually somethin' simple. That old slabsides ain't exactly a Swiss watch. ;)

John...You come on and see us and I'll sit ya down to some of the finest
Lexington-style barbecue in the world. Lexington, NC is the birthplace of barbecue...and it's just down the road a bit. 30 minutes by car. Ya might just decide to stay after that. One of the big perks is that you can have all the 1911s you can afford...and you can make your own ammo without havin' to jump through government hoops. It just don't get any better than that. :cool:

Veterans Day! Salute to all who went there and did that. I'm too dang old ta go back and do it again...or I probably would. God bless and watch over our Marines and Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen in "The Rack." If they'd just turn'em loose, they'd have this thing sewed up in about a month...if we could get the reporters to shaddup about what they're plannin' to do next.

Good night, Chesty...Wherever you are.

[Brian D.]

Thought you were gonna be busy teaching rope rescue to colliedogs or somethin'..

[Thumper2t]

I took my GI to a gunsmith after posting this thread and had him throat the barrel and pollish the ramp. Now it will go into battery with an empty case and i have not had a single jam in about 1500 rounds in the last few weeks.

just get it to a guy who knows somthin about 1911s and he will fix you right up

Sam

[1911Tuner]

Thought you were gonna be busy teaching rope rescue to colliedogs or somethin'..

Yep...but I can't do it in the dark! :D

I'm just touchin' bases before bed time for Bonzo...0300 comes early around here.

[John]

Feeding cases will do you no good, you will never load empty cases in that pistol. Try it with ammo, like the JHP you like and see if it is working. Cases does you no good.

Rgds

[Thumper2t]

they all work, wad cutters hollow points etc. i just thought a spent case was the ultimate....if it cycled those it would take loaded rounds...and i was right! Love this gun and im loving IDPA and IPSC