Colt Gubmint SPEAKS(to me)???

[Hajah Momenem]

I PROMISE to send pictures as soon as I can. Today I saw Colt's serial no.360279. It says(near as I can read my own scratchin) Colt 1911 and I think it had "U.S.Army" on slide also. ***Where can I find the year it was made etc? Is there a Colt History source other than Colt's $100 Plan for getting info on specific guns???*** THIS ONE IS A DOOZZIE:)!!! I walked past this pistol at least 10 times;and never gave it a second look(it looks like its finish is a Super Discount,butt-ugly,thin chrome/nickel(?) This plating is flaking badly off the hammer-face;and it looks pretty rough around the exposed part of the extractor(more flaking/roughness) on the back-end of the slide... Whoever plated it even plated the bottom of the magazine. I looked inside;looked like something had taken up residence in the barrel then DIED...or(Cosmoline? No offer from the establishment to shine some light on it for me... :mad: ). I asked the kid behind the counter if he could field strip it for me. "No way". So I asked if someone else (there are about 4 salespersons in there doing SQUAATT)could do a basic disassembly."Not anytime soon". It is on consignment;and I guess they are afraid they might break it or something. I invited the salesperson to have a peek down the tube. to see if he thought there was pitting badly inside the barrel. ***Would it be diplomatically or otherwise incorrect(its on consignment) to try to find and speak(haggle/trade) with owner about this gun?*** Included with the pistol is a flap-top military holster(very good condition) with what looks to be original "Prop&Wings" medallion on the flap/snap. The holster is stamped 1943 by Graton and Somebody(?) . There are nicely yellowed and VERY finely carved genuine elephant ivory grips(Island of Hawaii with 1944 date on one side/elephant and what may be a palm tree on the other side. I was hoping someone might have some information on this old war-horse...ever the optimist...that I am. ***I need to find out a LOT more about this Hawaiian Colt before I do something pecunuiary. ***The MSH is flat and not checkered or serrated just shiny plating. No stippling/checking/serrations on front strap.***Wonder what the Prop&Wings holster is worth?***Holster and gun have been together since new acc. to "the his-story" given me about this VERY cool old .45. I wasn't gonna tell what they are asking for it til I can learn all the innard-details :scared: :scared: :scared: and copy that M1911 Forums page explaining all the "previously-owned"function tests I want to perform.
Brother in Arms,
Mike

[Dr. Dickie]

I PROMISE to send pictures as soon as I can. Today I saw Colt's serial no.360279. It says(near as I can read my own scratchin) Colt 1911 and I think it had "U.S.Army" on slide also. ***Where can I find the year it was made etc? Is there a Colt History source other than Colt's $100 Plan for getting info on specific guns???***
Brother in Arms,
Mike
That serial (no "C" before the number?) would put it in the 1918 batch. But as far as collector value, it sounds like there is none likely left with all the modification done (that chrome finish is a killer for collection). Still, that doesn't mean it would not make a nice shooting pistol.
Go here for more info about serial number:
http://www.coolgunsite.com/
Go to ID pages.

[Hunter]

If you are interested in it there would be nothing wrong with making an offer and try and get yourself a better deal. The gun stores around here will call the owner with your offer to see if it is acceptable. They will be making money so they should try and help you. As far as dating a Colt you can always call Colt at 1 800 962 Colt with the serial number and they can give you the date over the phone. Also try www.proofhouse.com as they have many dates listed by serial number as well. I will agree with Dr. Dickie as far as loosing near'bout all the collection value from the modifications but the Colt could be a shooter or a good restoration project. It would not be a bad idea to field strip the 1911 and check it out. The sales people might not know how and that is why they were giving you the run around. Still allot can be seen by locking the slide back and using a bore light then a function check.

[Hajah Momenem]

Many thanks for the replies/info. I looked down the barrel;but didn't have a good light source. What I could see didn't look too good;but then I thought maybe some heavy grease or something was slathered down the barrel while it was "in storage"(?) The whole package: holster, incl. the wings and Prop medal./gun/art-decco hand-carved elephant ivory grips is very tempting to me. I don't have an old Colt;and I gotta start somewhere. ***There is a "C" at the beginning of the serial no. Also the abbr. for 'number' ie. "no." is part of the serial number stamp. This number looks like it may have been tampered with at some point since WORLD WAR I :scared: It would be great to get the story on this one if nothing else;but*** if I am offered a selling price of,say $700USD is that price way out of line?*** I won't quote any advice given(so UNLOAD). Any and all thoughts,advice,info es muy appreciatto. Somebody please tell me there's truckloads of these old 1911s around in much better condition and waay less costly! I'm still planning to take camera to shop and get some juicy photos to post on Forum.
GRACIAS,Muchachos!

[Hawkmoon]

To answer a question from your first post, IMHO it would be unethical for you to try to locate the owner and deal with him directly, but there is nothing wrong with making an offer through the shop. If you make an offer, they have an obligation to relay the offer to the owner, who is then free to accept your offer, make a counter-offer, or tell you to take a hike.

As to price? Being a beater AND having been plated, on top of apparently being a commercial pistol rather than GI, it has virtually no collector value, so the "right" price is whatever you and the seller can agree on. If you think it's worth $700 to you, then that's the right price. Since for this pistol authenticity probably isn't critical, if the barrel won't clean up you could do worse than replace it with a barrel from Sarco for about $40. Not a Bar-Sto or Kart barrel by any stretch, but it'll be new and it'll point bullets in the general direction of down range.

Just keep in mind that you can buy a NEW Springfield GI, Auto-Ordnance GI, or RIA for about half what you are contemplating spending on this thing, and you can buy reproduction holsters for about $25. I see no purpose to paying a premium for a genuine military holster for a pistol that isn't authentic military.

Please don't be offended if I offer a hint: Paragraphs are your friend. Your original post is VERY difficult to read because it's just one huge block of text. Become one with your inner "ENTER" key, Grasshopper. No, strings of asterisks (***) are not a decent substitute for forming real paragraphs.

[Hunter]

I have seen many 1918 era Colt 1911s in great shape for sale (not sure on correctness of all parts as I just seen them in counters) for the $1500 range depending. The "C" denotes it was a commercial 1911 (as opposed to military). Pictures would help but if cleaned up the old Colt could well be worth that. It really is hard to say without looking and checking it out but it is very possible.

[Hajah Momenem]

Hunter and Dr. D,
Thank you so much for the coolgunsite link and straight shooting. I will check the "proofhouse" site asap.
To me,The Ancient Hawaiian Colt's M1911,in all its garrish,.Dolly Parton cheeseyness is the creme-de-la-creme of firearms in THAT shop(only Colt in the building besides my carried LWOM ACP):)
Hawkmoon,
I am reminded of the meditative and deeply profound words of THE ZEN MASTER upon confronting the hot dog vendor when he proclaimed,"Make me ONE with EVERYTHING!!!:):):)"
I certainly agree with your assessment regarding doing anything unethical(not my intention). I know full-well how priceless it is to make absolutely, 100% sure that all parties involved in a sale/trade/swap,in a word,business,are happy in what transpires.


Selling,buying,trading old mandolins has been something I have been doing for a good while. I am pleased to report,with no small amount of pride,that any and all references I might provide regarding my personal business activities whether by phone,e-mail,or hardcopy will be favorable. I strive to keep this superlative reputation!


I won't be making any offer at all for that old pistol unless and until I get to make a full-detail inspection. The good ol' boyz in this particular gunshop seem to have been denied access to any bran in their diet. They sell a HEAP of Tupperware.


Hawkmoon,you mention that "authenticity" is not critical because of the non-original parts and finish,and because it is a "C" or Commercial/non-Military piece,the Military guns being what collectors value over the Commercial,right? I am trying to remember my history......yeppir,April 6,1917 is the day that the United States of America("My Country tis' of Thee...") declared war on Germany. The start of the German Spring Offensive was March 21,1918. Armistice signed November,11,1918. Only two months left in 1918 when this Great Country was at Peace.

I guess I'm wondering if "Commercial" pistols were made by Colt during wartime;or if 1918 is the correct date of this guns manufacture(?)? or what? It would be sort of silly paying big for non-military,WWI-era pistol that has,at some point,been carried in a WWII-era Military holster.


I suppose it COULD possibly have been carried and brought to bear on the hordes who would stomp into the dust this Constitutional Government,way of Life,and We, the People of this Great Nation on two occaisions. Ya think? Was it against policy to pack-up your own trusty old rod in your old kit-bag back then? I dunno. Plenty of Randall (non-military) cutlery in Viet Nam...


Hopefully I am not,in my ignorance, passing along misinformation;but I seem to recall some scut to the effect that Springfield uses parts manufactured on foreign soil(?) Auto-Ordinance is Canadian(?);

and I'm guessing "RIA" is Rock Island Armory,or Republican Irish Army;anyroad,I know nothing about them.("An empty vessel can be filled,Master.")

No offense taken regarding the lack of "real paragraphs" in my posts;I looked at it;and it IS hard to read. I have tried to make some single and even double"Enter" clicks between paragraphs in this post. Maybe its something my old compfuzer does when ***I'm not looking***!!!

I scare myself.
Mike