naive 1911 purchaser

[eshaw3645]

I am looking to purchase my first 1911 and am down to Series 70 or XSE. I know little about 1911's and do not understand if the differences in the two favor either one. Mainly the firing systems 80 vs 70. I've read the difference (firing pin safety) but don't understand if one is better than the other. Also, which finish is favored for durability? Dou you recommend night sights? Thank you

[Hunter]

Either one of those Colts would be an excellent choice. The Series 70 does not incorporate the firing pin safety and uses a collet style barrel bushing to get a tighter fit at the muzzle in barrel lock up to improve accuracy. Some folks prefer the Series 70 with out the firing pin safety as they say it has a better trigger pull. I do not agree with that. My Series 80 colts all have an excellent trigger pull. Stainless steel will be the most durable finish with parkerized close. I myself do not see the need for night sights. If it is so dark you cannot see your sights than I cannot think you could safely identify a target. A quality LED flashlight would serve better in my opinion. I think you would be pleased with either Colt so I would go with the one that fits you better. Welcome to the forum and good luck.

[eshaw3645]

Thanks for the reply. While I'm at it, a few more questions. As a home defense and range gun should I stick with Government length model? Are grip safety and sights better on XSE? Should I be intimidated with takedown compared to other semi autos and do Series 70 and XSE disassemble the same?

[Hunter]

I would stick with the full size for home defense and range use. The XSE will have better sights and a different grip safety. Field and detail strip are relatively simple. It may take a few tries to get the hang of it but the 1911 is a simply designed pistol. All 1911 will disassemble the same with few differences such as the added parts for the firing pin safety. You can go to www.coltsmfg.com to see all the differences of the current Colt 1911 line.

[Hawkmoon]

I would stick with the full size for home defense and range use. The XSE will have better sights and a different grip safety. Field and detail strip are relatively simple. It may take a few tries to get the hang of it but the 1911 is a simply designed pistol. All 1911 will disassemble the same with few differences such as the added parts for the firing pin safety. You can go to www.coltsmfg.com to see all the differences of the current Colt 1911 line.
One slightly annoying difference is that the Series 80 firing pin safety mechanism also interfaces with the extractor. To remove the extractor on a Series 80 pistol you have to do something with the firing pin safety -- and I confess that I don't know what that is. So the Series 70 is slightly easier to do some minor repairs/adjustments, but for the most part field stripping will be the same for Series 70 and Series 80.

[woodsman]

I favor the XSE. Better sights, duckbill grip safety, Commander style hammer. I also prefer the flat mainspring housing to the arched version on the Series 70. Another feature I like is the undercut trigger guard on the XSE. But try them for yourself and pick the one you prefer. Oh, yeah. The XSE is a fine shooter.

As for Govt vs. Commander, I like the balance and feel of the Commander pistol. Either will be a superb home defense gun.

[Hunter]

Hawk once you have the firing pin out of the slide (by depressing the firing pin safety plunger) the extractor will come out. When the firing pin is remover the firing pin safety plunger and spring will come out of the slide.

[eshaw3645]

Thanks for the helpful feedback. The Gold Cup Trophy has also caught my attention. I like some features but not sure of the grips. Any opinions?

[Hunter]

I have a Series 80 Colt Gold Cup Trophy and love it. I like the factory grips but they could easily be changed if you do not to what ever you want. It is an excellent example of a high end 1911.

[eshaw3645]

Do you know what the trigger pull is on the Series 80 Gold Cup ? Also, this may sound stupid, but please tell me what "adjustable trigger" refers to - in what way ? Thanks again, great forum. I'm glad I found this.

[Hunter]

I would guess the trigger pull on mine is around five pounds but I do not have a scale to verify that. Five pounds is my best guess. The adjustable trigger refers to being able to adjust the over travel. I have never changed the factory adjustment on any of my Gold Cups. They have all seem fine to me and if the adjustment is too little you can have trouble with getting the sear to break due to not enough travel. It really is not a stupid question as when I got my first Series 70 GCNM some time back I asked the gun dealer I bought it from and he did not know. I have had great luck with my Trophy enough so that a friend of mine who is a Springfield man (nothing wrong with Springfields I have one as well) went out and bought one after shooting mine. I really did not want to shoot my two Series 70 GCNMs very much but I wanted a quality target pistol to have for regular range use and I found the Trophy from Colt as my best option. Anything else you want to know please ask.

[eshaw3645]

Do you use Colt mags or have any problems with feeding or slide not locking open when emptied? I remember reading many people seem to use Wilson mags. Is that necessary or beneficial? I prefer the piece to perform right out of the box without having to worry about extra costs and modifications.

[Hunter]

I use the Colt magazines that came with the pistol. I have bought enough Colts that I have plenty of Colt magazines. Some are the 8 round and some are the 7 round but all function flawless. I am not sure who makes the magazines for Colt. My father gave me some cheap magazines from God knows where and they fed fine but would not lock the slide back. I know it is a follower problem but I keep the magazines separate and use them from time to time at the range to keep me on my toes when shooting and not counting on the slide to lock back when the pistol is empty though I would never use them for anything other than range use. I do not trust them at all. Good for practicing failures and that is about it.If you stick with the name brand like Chip McCormick you should be good to go but I like the ones that came from Colt the best.

[eshaw3645]

Considering approximate price range of A Gold Cup, is there something else you would recommend instead? Also, I know I'm jumping around but what is the future stability of Colt? Aren't they downsizing? I'm from CT and know one plant is closed. I'd be concerned of lifetime warranty. Ridiculous?

[Hawkmoon]

What Colt plant closed? I didn't know they had more than one.

[Hunter]

I would guess around $900 depending on finish for NIB. For a quality target 1911 for the price and reliability I do not think you could go wrong with the Trophy. If your budget was a little tighter I do not think you could go wrong with anything Colt makes.I really do not think Colt will be going anywhere. Colt has downsized but I cannot see them closing up shop with their reputation. They might not be as big as some of the other but they will always be around. The girl I am seeing now is from right outside Hartford and her folks live not far at all from the Colt factory. She really does not understand how that is important to me but I showed her the Colts I have and she has some idea now. :D

[eshaw3645]

Sorry, I believe I was wrong about the plant closure. I think I misinterpreted some other information I had heard. It may have been an older relocate or something.

[eshaw3645]

Last dumb question - I Hope. What is NIB?

[Dr. Dickie]

Last dumb question - I Hope. What is NIB?

New In Box
Not dumb, how you going to know unless you ask!

[eshaw3645]

So much for it being the last question. Are all Gold Cup Trophy's Series 80?

[Hunter]

So much for it being the last question. Are all Gold Cup Trophy's Series 80?
Yes. You could get a Series 70 or 80 in a Gold Cup National Match but I am not aware a Series 70 Trophy was made.

[eshaw3645]

I know nothing about it, but I read on this site something about a sear spring which is in Gold Cup's and is a pain to deal with. Do newer models have this spring? I'm not proud of this, but a big concern remains complexity of basic field stripping for cleaning of 1911's. I will be reluctant to shoot a gun which is a project to clean since I am not especially mechanically inclined and do not want to strip a gun which I cannot reassemble.

[Hunter]

The sear spring is in the Gold Cup National Match. It is there to prevent sear bounce. The Gold Cup Trophy uses a lighter aluminum trigger so does not have the sear spring you are referring to. The sear spring can be a little aggravating to put back in the National Matches but using a slave pin really helps. The Gold Cup Trophy you mentioned is much easier to reassemble. The worst part is the two extra pieces in the frame for the firing pin safety which are not bad. If you have a few punches to act as slave pins that really makes life easier. Tuner showed me that a AR15 firing pin is perfect for a disassemble tool as the different diameters of the pin fit exactly the different diameters of the 1911. So the Series 80 Gold Cup Trophy does not have the sear spring and is not bad to detail strip and reassemble just pick you up a AR15 firing pin to make life easier.

[eshaw3645]

Again, I'm sure I'm asking some very basic questions but I've only been shooting for less than five years and the guns I own are very simple to shoot, field strip, clean and reassemble(Kahr, Glock, Sig and S&W revolver) so I am easily intimidated and unfamiliar with parts and detail stripping. But as long as you are willing to answer, I'll keep asking. That being said, during basic takedown for basic cleaning, are the two firing pin parts you eluded to involved or only during more involved detail strippng? When is detail stripping necessary and how much more involved than basic field strip?

[191145]

eshaw; I believe by 'Series 70' you are referring to the new Series 70 repro, which as I understand it does not use the collet bushing like the old ones. The Series 70 is a pretty good repro of the traditional Government Model, which was merely the commercial version of the U.S. Pistol Model 1911A1. The other pistol you mentioned is a Series 80 XSE which has a safety that won't let the firing pin move forward until the trigger is pulled. This gun also has many features that have come to be known as upgrades from the Gov Model. The Gold Cup is set up for target shooting with lighter loads. It has an adjustable trigger that controls over-travel. It can be used as a carry gun but requires a different spring set for full-power 230 gr ammo. It also has large, sharp-edged sights that do not lend themselves well to an all-around gun that sometimes would be holstered. I think the XSE is the one for you, as it is more of a general-purpose .45 and it has the benefit (for inexperienced 1911 owners) of the firing pin safety.

[eshaw3645]

Thanks for the feedback. Even though this would not be holstered or ever used as a carry gun, do you still favor the XSE over Gold Cup for inexperienced 1911 owner? Home defense and range gun only. Not competition, but I like to shoot.

[Hunter]

I would field strip after every trip to the range which does not include removing the parts in the frame for the firing pin safety. Detail strip every 1000 rounds or so just to clean good and inspect for problems.Field stripping is real easy as is cleaning. Detail stripping is a little more involved but if you pay attention while you are detail stripping and have good directions (which can be had here in the technical section) it will not take you long to get the hang of it. Keep in mind the 1911 was designed to be a simple pistol for reliability and ease of repair in the field. I am partial to the Gold Cup over the XSE. It comes with a lighter recoil spring for 185 gr target loads and a 16 pound recoil spring for full power loads. I have always shot full power loads in my Trophy as well as some defensive loads and she will handle them fine. I would not shoot +P loads (stronger than full power usually in high end defensive rounds) in any 1911 as with the .45 ACP you really do not need +P. I like the 230 grain JHP Federal Hydra Shock as a defensive load and the Trophy handles them great. The different set of springs for full power loads as mentioned above is a 16 pound recoil spring which is found in most all full size 1911s than comes with the Trophy. The Trophy also comes with a reduced power recoil spring and a seven round dimpled magazine if you are shooting reduced power loads for competition only to aid you in reduction of recoil to get back on target quicker. I have never used the reduced power recoil spring as I do not shoot competition with it and have no need but it was included as it is a competition grade 1911. I carry my Trophy from time to time and yes the sights are bigger than the GI sights but I can still get her out of the holster in a hurry. Also the Trophy includes the firing pin safety as mentioned above same as the XSE as do all series 80 Colts. If at all possible shoot a few and decide for yourself. I am sure the XSE is a great 1911 but with the Gold Cup Trophy there would never be the need to "upgrade" just to add others to your collection. If you can afford it get the best, why not? As long as you got questions I will try to answer them as will anyone else here.

[eshaw3645]

Which recoil spring is in the gun when new ? Also, my local gun shop is fairly large and I know for sure they sure don't have Gold Cup, should they be able to order or how should I acquire new?

[Hunter]

I believe it was the 16 pound recoil spring installed and the lighter spring in the box. The lighter recoil spring can be identified by green paint on the end of the spring that goes over the guide rod. Your local gunshop should be able to order one no problem. The last Colt I ordered was a Government Model 1911 .38 Super and it took three days for my dealer to get it from his distributor and it was brand new from Colt. That was a few months ago. Some dealers will try and tell you they cannot get it and want to sell you something they have in stock. Keep in mind they would rather sell items in stock verses order something. Dealers have several distributers they deal with so once you make up your mind on what you want don't let them try and talk you out of it. Another option is a gunshow where you very well could find one but I would try my local dealer first they should be able to get you one quick. I got lucky finding mine in stock. I really wasn't looking for a new 1911 but the Trophy had just come in and I could not pass it up. My dealer had ordered a blued and a stainless. I bought the blued and last time I was in his store I believe the stainless was gone. They usually don't hang around long.

[eshaw3645]

So you prefer the Gold Cup Trophy in blued, I seem to like them both but leaning to stainless. Black grips on both, right? Thanks, you continue to be very informative.

[Hajah Momenem]

One feature I find I favor on the Officer's Model Colts(and XSE?) is the undercut area under the trigger gaurd. I have smallish hands;and that feature seems to make it easier for me to get a "high&tight" grip. The Gold Cup doesn't have this(at least my Series '70 doesn't). Not sure which other models have this feature.
Note to "naive 1911 purchaser": You owe it to yourself to at least look at some Damascus-slide 1911s before you dive in(I've only seen Caspians sporting Damascus). Very SICK!! Might as well save up for matching cutlery while you're at it!

[Hunter]

I like the looks of a blued 1911 better but the stainless will be less trouble. I do have a stainless 1911 and I do like the look of stainless don't get me wrong. My friend just bought a Colt Gold Cup Trophy in stainless and it is a beautiful pistol. Almost too pretty to shoot, almost. Both finishes do come with the black wrap around hard rubber grips which I like very much. The stainless will be less maintenance for you and there will be no bluing to wear off from holster use.

[eshaw3645]

Do you know the weight of your Gold Cup Trophy? I read 40 oz but also heard 50oz.

[Hunter]

Two books I have list it at 39 oz but I am not positive that is exact but if not it is close.

[eshaw3645]

Thanks. Also, what is the Mark IV line? I saw one in gun shop but not on Colt website.