Changing thumb safety

[Blackhawk]

Just thinking about upgrading the safety on my Gold Cup to an extended model with wide paddle and thought I might also need to change out the slide stop. Is this necessary or just purely cosmetic?

[Hunter]

Some folks like it but I myself do not see the need. I do have a Series 70 GCNM with the extended ambi safety and extended slide stop and another GCNM with all stock Colt parts and there is no difference to me in shooting them. All my other Colts are stock and I prefer them that way (the GCNM I mentioned was modified before I bought it). I have heard of some extended slide releases giving trouble. My opinion is to leave your Colt stock. That said it is your pistol and you need to do with it as you see fit.

[Blasterboy]

There are many bodies of thought on this issue and let me express mine . The need for an extended slidestop is probably one of personal preference more than anything. What is someones "cup of tea" is not for others. If you feel it helps your gunhandling techniques..knock yourself out. The issue of the thumb safety is one more rooted in positive safety in your gunhandling techniques. First, there is ONLY one method you should employ for the safe and consistent operation of your 1911. That involves your firing side thumb remaining on that thumb safety AT ALL TIMES...!! Even when firing your weapon. That wider longer shelf on the lever gives your thumb something solid to rest upon. In fact, some people need to velcro their thumb to the slide. Sooooo , my point is...addding an extended thumb safety to a older 1911 is only going to help you with your gun handling and safety. A good thing we can all agree on. Finally, the addition of both safeties and the close proximity of their tip ends can cause operational and gunhandling issues for some shooters. You may wish to think that one out some before any purchases. Personally, I add an extended thumb safety to all my 1911's and pass on the extended slidestop..... Good luck..

[wichaka]

The issue of the thumb safety is one more rooted in positive safety in your gunhandling techniques. First, there is ONLY one method you should employ for the safe and consistent operation of your 1911. That involves your firing side thumb remaining on that thumb safety AT ALL TIMES...!! Even when firing your weapon. That wider longer shelf on the lever gives your thumb something solid to rest upon. In fact, some people need to velcro their thumb to the slide. Sooooo , my point is...addding an extended thumb safety to a older 1911 is only going to help you with your gun handling and safety.


Not trying to start anything, just trying to comprehend what safety issue is there with keeping the thumb on or off the safety.

I aint heard of everything, so maybe I missed something somewhere.......

[Ericthenorse]

I have heard stories of safteys engaging at the wrong times and causing problems(coming on from recoil..) It has never happened to me though... If thw little dimple that the plunger rides in on the side of the safety is deep enough and in the right spot, the safety will not come on unless you want it to. If you donn't pay attention to your thumb, you can acidentally hit it, and have the safety go on at a very bad time... As far as wheather you should/shouldn't keep your thumb on the safety... Do what feels right to you. Some people will tell you what you MUST do... It all depends who gave you training, and what you are using your gun for... If you are looking at a Combat/self defense situation, it is probably best to ride the safety. If for no other reason than to take one possible problem out of the loop. If you are doing nothing but target shooting, then it probably doesn't matter. I personally place my right thumb low on the grip(pointing towards the mag release) and pot my left thumb over it and rest it on the side of the slide stop. It looks goofy, and I get lots of "you are doing it wrong" from evrybody, but it works for me....

[John]

I've never heard of a safety going to the "On" position by itself.

[MarineTech]

I have had extended thumb safeties work themselves OFF with bad holsters, but I have never had a thumb safety work itself ON.

As far as extended slide releases, I don't use them. I looked at them initially because I have small hands and couldn't reach the slide release without radically turning the gun sideways. At the suggestion of a police firearms instructor, I got into the habit of sling-shotting the slide with my hand cupped over the top of the slide instead. This method also helps in the event of a stovepipe in that you can "wipe" the stuck case out of the ejection port as you cycle it. Since then, I only use the slide release to manually lock the slide open.

[Blasterboy]

Wichaka,
I understand...let me see if I can articulate this, so as to not have to repeat it several times. The prime mover in this concept has been Col. Jeff Cooper. Going back to his Big Bear Lake shoots and his using a 1911 for his weapon of choice, he noticed problems with his firing side thumb engaging the bottom of the thumb safety and shutting the operation of the gun down. Many of his competitors were experincing the same problems, as they were changing over from the SAA to 1911's. Cooper's solution was to move his firing side thumb up on top of the thumb safety to correct the eventuality of problems with the thumb safety. He kept it ther for the entire firing cycle. He incorporated this technique in his writings and teaching at Gunsite and in "the Modern Technique of the Pistol". If any of you have Cooper's book "the complete book of Modern Handgunning", on page 72, in the upper left hand corner is a picture of what Cooper was advocating in this regard. My sense is for those that claim this has never occurred to them....either have their thumbs "buried in their grip" or run their gun with "thumbs in tandem" along the left side of the frame. I had the pleasure of working at Front Sight for the first 5 years of operation in Nevada and worked handgun for almost all of those years. We were adament about where the firing side thumb was supposed to reside. Getting the thumb up there also helped in the execution of malfunction clearance drills. With hours and hours of dry practice, you learned to move that thumb back and forth from the top to the bottom of the lever to constantly engage or disengage the safety to improve the safety of your gunhandling. A question.... how many if you regularly manipulate your thumb safety while conducting a tactical reload drill..?? In conclusion...this technique is not a must for all shooters and is certainly not being offered as the only way to go about your gunhandling techniques at the range. Be advised, using this firing side thumb technique will in all likely necessitate a small modification to your firing grip.....

[OD*]

he noticed problems with his firing side thumb engaging the bottom of the thumb safety and shutting the operation of the gun down.
Yep, a friend and I were out shooting one time and he was using one of my Colt's that was known to me to be completely reliable, anyway, he was having premature slide lock several times in a magazine. I walked to his left rear and watched him closely, that is exactly what was happening to him. He was inadvertently applying the thumb safety as he recovered from recoil.

[Blasterboy]

Bingo...OD..!!

[wichaka]

MarineTech, if you're right handed.........try using the thumb on your left hand to drop the slide stop. After a mag change, as your getting your left hand back into position to grip the gun, drop the slide stop at the same time.......may not work for all.........but you may want to try it.

As for the thumb thing.......I shoot thumbs forward, and aint ever had that problem of accidentally engaging the thumb safety.

I take it thats why Gunsite has their own style of thumb safety, that allows us forward thumbs folks to have the thumbs forward, but still ride the safety...........I've not tried one, but it looks like it may be a good design.

Have met and talked with the good Colonel a few times. He came to our L.E. Instructors yearly seminar some years ago..........had the pleasure to shoot along side of him too.
He took a somewhat liking to me (as sometimes, one can't really tell with him) as I build L.E. 1911's the way he likes them..........few bells and whistles........but good sights, good trigger, and dehorned.
But then, I was influenced by his books and teachings as I was growing up.........and really liked his no nonsense approach to 1911's. And I still like it.......

Thanks for the explanation Blasterboy.......

[Blasterboy]

Your welcome, Wichaka....Good post. The relative position of the firing side thumb can be a reflection of how far forward both thumbs are extended. In the aggressive combat grip that I teach, the thumbs are stacked. The support side thumb is resting next to the firing side thumb (on the thumb safety lever) with NO lateral pressure. You obviously are shooting a more Isoceles (LE) style of stance.
Yes, I teach that the fastest most effective way to release the slide during a malfunction or reload drill is to hit it with the support side thumb as you are reacquiring your firing grip. Hey, based on a comment by Marinetech....does anybody want to have a dialogue on Type #2 malfunction clearances..???

[Hawkmoon]

The issue of the thumb safety is one more rooted in positive safety in your gunhandling techniques. First, there is ONLY one method you should employ for the safe and consistent operation of your 1911. That involves your firing side thumb remaining on that thumb safety AT ALL TIMES...!! Even when firing your weapon. That wider longer shelf on the lever gives your thumb something solid to rest upon. In fact, some people need to velcro their thumb to the slide. Sooooo , my point is...addding an extended thumb safety to a older 1911 is only going to help you with your gun handling and safety. A good thing we can all agree on.
I will agree with you that safety is important, and safety is good. I fail to comprehend how placing my thumb ON the safety while shooting would in any way increase or enhance safety. On that point, I'm afraid we will have to disagree.

[Hawkmoon]

I personally place my right thumb low on the grip(pointing towards the mag release) and pot my left thumb over it and rest it on the side of the slide stop. It looks goofy, and I get lots of "you are doing it wrong" from evrybody, but it works for me....
As a matter of fact, I was just looking at an old picture of Jeff Cooper shooting, and that's exactly how he had his thumbs positioned. Both thumbs parallel and pointing stright forward, parallel to the barrel. I tried to duplicate that position and it felt very odd to me, but if it works for you ... it appears you are in good company.

[Hawkmoon]

Bingo...OD..!!
And how is it unsafe to accidently ENGAGE the safety?

[OD*]

On a range, it probably wouldn't be Hawk. If someone would happen to be shooting at me, I wouldn't want to engage my safety by accident. ;)

[Blasterboy]

Well stated OD.....Hawkmoon, several points. The safety aspect of this method is that while performing gunhandling techniques on the range....the more time that your safety is on...the incident possibilities of a ND is greatly diminished. In fact when the gun drill is completed , the last proceedure is... the safety goes ON..!! AS far as when you are live firing the weapon....the thumb is up on the thumb safety to merely insure that the gun DOES NOT go into "slidelock" because your thumb, under recoil, pushs the safety into ON..!! For my money...the only safety issue here is that you get to shoot all the rounds you intend to....and live to survive the gunfight....or on the range get to fire the rounds you need to during a "Skills Test". Finally, I am not advocating these proceedures as the only way to handle and shoot a 1911....but have got to admit they make sense...!! I am suggesting that those that are interested..experiment with them and if you see the sense in them, then adopt them. If not...we never had this conversation. A question, way do you perform a chamber check just after you have "racked" a round into your chamber..???

[wichaka]

Hey, based on a comment by Marinetech....does anybody want to have a dialogue on Type #2 malfunction clearances..???


Sounds good, I'll start one over in the "General Discussion" area.

[Gammon]

Wichaka,
I understand...let me see if I can articulate this, so as to not have to repeat it several times. The prime mover in this concept has been Col. Jeff Cooper. Going back to his Big Bear Lake shoots and his using a 1911 for his weapon of choice, he noticed problems with his firing side thumb engaging the bottom of the thumb safety and shutting the operation of the gun down. Many of his competitors were experincing the same problems, as they were changing over from the SAA to 1911's. Cooper's solution was to move his firing side thumb up on top of the thumb safety to correct the eventuality of problems with the thumb safety. He kept it ther for the entire firing cycle. He incorporated this technique in his writings and teaching at Gunsite and in "the Modern Technique of the Pistol". If any of you have Cooper's book "the complete book of Modern Handgunning", on page 72, in the upper left hand corner is a picture of what Cooper was advocating in this regard. My sense is for those that claim this has never occurred to them....either have their thumbs "buried in their grip" or run their gun with "thumbs in tandem" along the left side of the frame. I had the pleasure of working at Front Sight for the first 5 years of operation in Nevada and worked handgun for almost all of those years. We were adament about where the firing side thumb was supposed to reside. Getting the thumb up there also helped in the execution of malfunction clearance drills. With hours and hours of dry practice, you learned to move that thumb back and forth from the top to the bottom of the lever to constantly engage or disengage the safety to improve the safety of your gunhandling. A question.... how many if you regularly manipulate your thumb safety while conducting a tactical reload drill..?? In conclusion...this technique is not a must for all shooters and is certainly not being offered as the only way to go about your gunhandling techniques at the range. Be advised, using this firing side thumb technique will in all likely necessitate a small modification to your firing grip.....

Why on earth would anyone manipulate their safety during a reload, tactical or otherwise?

Thumb on the safety or "high thumb" is popular in IPSC competition because it aids in the control of the firearm and is a tactic that would work well in any other use of the pistol. The only problem is that the standard safety doesn't give you much to rest your thumb on.
I shot with a "low thumb" (below the safety) for many years with no problems. The only problems I have ever seen with the "low thumb" was when the shooter's thumb would accidentally activate an extended safety. Perhaps those who prefer the low thumb would be better off with a standard safety?
Extended slide stops are the mark of the inexperienced shooter. Check out the guns of the IPSC pros; you won't find ANY. Some people with small hands (I'm one) have to turn the pistol slightly to reach the slide stop during a reload. Re-establishing a proper firing grip takes no time at all. In over 25 years of IPSC competition, I have never been tempted to buy one and I'm a gadget freak!

[N7CAV]

I like the standard Colt safety. Actually have problems with the extended / larger ones - I ride the safety as well, either keeping it down when firing pushing up when on safe. I've picked up a gun more than plenty of times where this habit engaged the safety. Since flipping the thumb safety on and off is a good deal of my practice, any extra metal would just get in the way of my thumb. I've seen three other shooters engage their safety by accident. They want the big, cool safety lever, but don't want to keep their thumb on top of it when shooting. The difference between recreation and technical form I guess . . . Another problem as stated here, is more chance for ambi or extended safeties to disengage. My kimber likes to do that... And I never use the ambi-safety anyway/

I like the extended slide stop however. Little hands. No slingshot technique, just drop the slide stop. Personal preference. I'm not a tactical shooter however... If I was, maybe I would get night-sights or a rail-light or something :-)

[John]

I can't argue with personal preferences, but I would suggest that you try learning to manipulate the slide stop with the thumb of your support hand, instead of the one of your shooting hand. After the magazine is slammed in, and as you grab the pistol in a two hand hold again, just press the slide release with the thumb of your weak hand.