Learned Advice needed

[rhtwist]

Hello,
I am considering the purchase of a 1911. I am concerned about a problem that I encountered. While I have owned two Colts, they both have had the enhanced grip safety. In the past I fired a Commander without this feature and received excessive biting on the web of my hand between the safety flange and the hammer. Can anyone advise me if this is a problem with other unenhanced Colts or just a spur hammer issue? I would not want to have to alter the 1911. Are there other solutions? Thanks for any help!
rhtwist

[John]

Unmodified 1911's tend to do that (I have the scars to prove it, and they were made several years ago). Your solution is either to get a pistol with a beavertail grip safety installed from the factory (like Springfield Loaded models), or to have a beavertail installed in the pistol you buy, by a gunsmith. Since you do not want to alter it, your only option is the first one.

In any case, have a look at this small article (http://www.m1911.org/technic6.htm), from The M1911.ORG Home Page.

Rgds

[care-less]

I have to tell you that I personally cannot understand how people are getting bit. I am not a small guy, and have fairly large hands; and I have never experienced hammer bite even with my WW1 repro which has very little tang on it. I have tried to get the flesh of my hand up over the grip safety tang to where it will be bitten; and I cannot do it and still grip the pistol. I guess that since I cannot fathom how people are holding the pistol in order for this to occur; I really can't offer advice except to tell you to slightly bob the hammer spur or use the extended beavertails. I really need to get together with someone who gets bitten regularly so that I can understand this phenomenon. As it is, I shoot on a bullseye league, and can find no one who has ever experienced this; though pretty much all of the guys and gals shoot 1911's.

[rhtwist]

Hello John and care-less,
Thanks for your response. John are you saying that the wide 1911 Government and the slimmer 1911a1 hammer will still bite due to the smaller or larger safety tang? Also thanks for the link!
Care-less I wish I knew what the problem is. I've fired a bunch of different autoloaders and have never had a problem. Somehow the web of my hand get in the wrong place at the right time with that commander. Are the safety tangs different between the Government and the Commander models?
I'd like to get a Colt 1911 but won't modify it.
I happen to like the Colt enhanced grip safety rather than the longer curverd up types. Can the Colt part be gotten and if so used with the Wide hammer type of say a Springfield, or would the hammer require changing to the Commander style. Now that I think of it the Colts I've owned had the elongated Commander hammer type. Thanks for any info or opinion.
rhtwist

[wichaka]

You can get drop in type grip safeties that closely match that of the enhanced, and there's no modification to the gun. Or I'm sure there's someone out there that has one that's been taken off a gun.

Usually the larger safety tang prevents the hammer bite.

I've done a modification to a GI type grip safety so it looks like a Commander safety with the dish out of it for the hammer. Its not done yet, but have shot 150 rounds thru it, and have no bite or indentation of the safety wearing into the web. Its going to be blended into the frame a bit more, but the under side is rounded enough that there's no damage to the web. I added the Commander style hammer..........

This one was done on a Springer frame.......Mil-Spec to be exact. You may want to try this.

http://w3.gorge.net/scshields/gripsafety.jpg

[SMMAssociates]

That bite issue seems to be very individual.... :D

My regular shooting buddy has to have the extended beavertail or he gets cut up just walking by the thing. I have a Commander with a stock grip safety and a Tac-Four, also stock. The Commander does bite me a little, but with ordinary range reloads, it's not a problem. He can't shoot it more than a couple times without reminding me how easy it is to drop in a better grip safety....

The Tac-Four, OTOH, just has a bigger bulge back there. Both of us find it comfortable. The Commander has a full-wrap Pachmayr grip, and the Tac-Four has a Pearce grip, but these don't cover or affect the grip safety. His 1911, likewise, had a "finger groove" type grip - can't think of who's - with wood inserts. Again, not any real impact on the grip safety.

(OK, his 1911 is a lot more comfortable for long periods, but we mostly do two or three round "double tap" drills and things of that nature where you get a few minutes between magazines to recover.)

Funny thing -I've got a PPK/S (circa 1970, Interarms), and he's got a new S&W PPK/S. I had to put Pachmayr's on mine, and it's still a bit uncomfortable. S&W put a bigger bulge back there and it's fine with stock grips. (Cylinder & Slide will add a real beavertail to the thing, but for more than the gun costs. :eek: ) I can shoot either one without damage, but he has trouble with mine.

I don't see anything wrong with a "drop in". You may have to have it fitted a bit to the sear, and maybe swap the hammer, but it doesn't change the frame, and can be swapped back out quickly if a purist wants to buy it. :p

[rhtwist]

There appears to be options. Thanks for all and anymore advice. I think I'll try to get to a range that has a unenhanced Government model, hopefully even a 1911 replica and fire it. I've decided that I'd like an unaltered 1911, the mystic, history or whatever..... If I can't fire one without a problem maybe it was not meant to be. I have another Colt so I don't have to go cold turkey. If this rationalization doesn't work, there are the options you've mention.
rhtwist

[One of Many]

I shoot a Combat Commander that was made in the mid 1970s. It has the standard grip safety. I get severe hammer bite, unless I wear a glove when shooting. I thought about adding a beavertail grip safety (gunsmith installation) but the cost of custom work is much higher than the cost of a shooting glove. I don't expect to shoot enough ammo in a defensive situation to worry about hammer bite. The range practice with a tight fitting glove is a good solution.

[SMMAssociates]

I shoot a Combat Commander that was made in the mid 1970s. It has the standard grip safety. I get severe hammer bite, unless I wear a glove when shooting. I thought about adding a beavertail grip safety (gunsmith installation) but the cost of custom work is much higher than the cost of a shooting glove. I don't expect to shoot enough ammo in a defensive situation to worry about hammer bite. The range practice with a tight fitting glove is a good solution.

I'd say that my Commander is similar to yours.... Pachmayr grips, and an oversized slide stop and safety, though.

I thought about the gloves, but I'm going to try a beavertail first - $40 from Brownells, give or take, for one that's a "drop in", although it's anybody's guess whether I'm going to have to pay to have it fitted. I can install it myself, but if it doesn't work, I'm cooked. :eek: (Sear "fitting" issues.)

My gunsmith will do the work for $20-$30. Gloves probably would be cheaper, but I try to get a lot of range time, and prefer to keep the "feel" similar to what I might run into if I actually needed the thing.

A good "cut the frame" beavertail may be a better choice, but I've shot 1911's with this particular version installed, and it seems fine for me. I inherited this gun from a friend who did the other mods, and I never asked him why he didn't change the beavertail. I need to work on the trigger too - it's serrated and kinda sharp. My gunsmith already diddled the trigger pull back to "good". (The former owner had it set up with a very heavy trigger.)

What concerns me here is that I do put a lot of lead through this gun, and feel that if you're going to carry one, you should too. (Note to ammunition manufacturers, please see my profile for where to send the the free samples. :D ) Problem is that if it bites you when the chips are down, you may really notice. Odds are that you wouldn't, but for under $100, I think I'd prefer to minimize that particular gotcha. There are trigger issues here too - it's going to feel different. Might be an ND issue, a failure to fire when needed, or just a deterrent to accuracy.

My normal carry is the Tac-Four you're (probably) seeing as my avatar. Grooved Pearce grips and an arched mainspring housing make it shoot more or less exactly where my Commander does, should I need or want to swap for some reason. The Tac-Four's "beavertail" area could be improved, I suppose, but is considerably better than the Commander.

There's a "Para Stripdown" thread on the board in the Para section with a larger picture of my Tac-Four. View at your own risk :cool: .