Question about lead removal and tolerances

[Bloencustoms]

I have been shooting a lot lately since I bought my 1911 a couple of months ago. I already have 1150 rounds through it, and have purchased a progressive reloading press to help soften the hit to my wallet (and because I like gadgets and machines). I have been using cast lead bullets (230 grain round nose), Winchester primers, and 4.9 grains of 231 propellant. I noticed a little leading in the barrel just past the chamber where the bullet first enters the barrel. It is one of those things that bothers me untill I remedy the situation. I must have scrubbed the barrel with a brush soaked in solvent, and patches with J-B on them for about 3 hours untill finally my flashlight revealed that the lead was gone. I am concerned that eventually, this vigorous cleaning might wear on the stop shoulder inside the chamber, perhaps rounding the sharp edge and allowing an excessively crimped round to fall to forward in the chamber. Am I worrying too much over nothing? Should I change to jacketed bullets exclusively? Is there a way to reduce leading and keep shooting the cast bullets? Any help will be appreciated.

[Ken Grant]

If store bought bullets are hard,your load maybe too lite for them. I use 5.7 of 231 and get no leading with hard bullets.
An easy way to remove lead is with a brass scrub pad. I use Choreboy if needed.
Tear off a little and wrap it around a .45 bore brush and scrub the barrel with it. It will only take a couple of passes and all the lead will be gone.
If you lay a piece of white paper at the end of the barrel,you can see the lead it cuts out. :D

[1911Tuner]

Speaking as a bullet caster and 50,000 round a year shooter...The hardness of the bullet has very little to do with the amount of leading. It's got everything to do with bullet size and the lubricant. If the bullet is too small, the hot gasses cut past the base and sides of the bullet and melt the lead.
Since bullet metal is alloyed with tin and antimony, it makes for a very efficient solder.

I use a home-cooked alloy in both .45 and .357 Magnum. I drive the 160-grain bullets at near maximum velocities(14.5 grains of 2400) with zero leading beyond a light wash that cleans up with one or two strokes with a brush dipped in Hoppe's #9.

The same alloy at 800 fps in my .45s leads the bores...some pistols a little worse than others. Firing a magfull of jacketed ammo at the end of the session cleans it out pretty well. If the leading is heavy...coats more than about half the bore...pressures will go up.
Load your cleanout rounds about 10% lighter than standard.

Another experimental alloy that's not as hard as the standby doesn't lead as badly because the bullets are soft enough to upset and seal the bore, reducing gas cutting. That alloy is about 95% lead with equal parts tin/antimony making up the rest as opposed to the 92/4/4 mix for the old standby. (Basically a close Taracorp copy)

The reason that lead bullets need to be hard at high velocities is so that they'll take the rifling instead of stripping across it in the first inch of travel.
You won't run into that until you get into speeds of 1800-2,000 fps. For .45 ACP velocities, a swaged lead bullet will do pretty well as long as the bore isn't larger than the bullet diameter. If it is, not even pure linotype will help much. If the bullet is .001 inch or so larger than bore diameter, your leading will be minimal. If your bore is the same size or larger than bullet diameter, you need to try a softer bullet.

[mike h. buness]

Hi guys. I hate to add a question to a question, but the above posts did'nt mention lube. Can you shoot lead alloy without lube? I too have some leading with cast .452 H&S 68 made with wheelweights. Mike.

[1911Tuner]

Hi guys. I hate to add a question to a question, but the above posts did'nt mention lube. Can you shoot lead alloy without lube? I too have some leading with cast .452 H&S 68 made with wheelweights. Mike.


I tried that once, just to see what difference it would make. I don't advise it...14 rounds and the barrel looked like the inside of a sewer pipe. Took me
2 solid hours and wore out 3 brass 50 caliber brushes to clean it out. MUCH to thick to clean out with jacketed rounds.

[Bloencustoms]

Well, I have only just started reloading, so I haven't yet progressed to the point of casting my own bullets. The bullets I have been using are made a few parishes over in Thibodeaux, LA by a G.A.T. Mfg. company. I buy them at the local range in New Orleans. I think they measure .452 diameter, but I can check them with a caliper when I get home from work to be sure. As to the alloy, I have no idea. The label on the box says only .45 acp 230 gr. round nose. The lubricant ring is filled with a green waxy substance. The data I found in a Lyman book, and a couple of online sites suggests the maximum charge for lead round nose 230 gr. bullets to be 5.1 grains, so I like to stay below that to account for possible variations with the powder measure, since I am not weighing each charge individually.

But, to get back to my original question, can I damage the stop shoulder in the chamber by overly aggressive cleaning, or am I worrying too much? Also, the leading I mentioned was a spot only about a tenth on an inch or so in diameter in one of the grooves, and a little speck about .025 on one of the lands. I might be being a little too nit-picky, but it bothered me enough to make me scrub the bore until it was completely gone.

[1911Tuner]

The alloy is probably either Lyman #2 or Taracorp. Some commercial casters use reclaimed wheelweights and mix it 50/50 with Lyman #2 in order to keep costs down.

Miking may show that the bullets aren't perfectly round, but don't sweat it.

You won't damage the stop shoulder with aggressive cleaning as long as you don't use anything harder than the barrel steel. Avoid stainless-steel brushes though. My personal favorite for cleaning the shoulder is a .45 Colt empty case that I've tapped on with a hammer, mouth down on a mill file to create "teeth" on the mouth after lightly belling to fit the chamber. Push it in to the shoulder and turn it a few times. Lead and carbon residue come right out.

You can use a product called Kroil if you want to make the cleanup easier.
Let it soak for a couple hours. Kroil gets under the lead and loosens it up
pretty well, and usually all that's needed is a few passes with a brush to clear the lead out. Dry-brushing the lead to score it before applying whatever solvent you use will help. Chore Boy pads wrapped tightly around an old brush also works pretty fast...Just don't get it so tight that it gets stuck in the bore. The ultimate is the Lewis Lead Remover. It uses a rubbler plug sized tight for the caliber and thin brass screen mesh to pull the lead out.
You can also get a product from Kleenbore called the "Lead-Away Cloth" and use it like the Chore Boy pads...and a lot less hassle than the pads.

I've found that dry-brushing and soaking for an hour with a good solvent like Shooter's Choice makes the lead removal less trouble, especially if you run a few jacketed rounds through the gun at the end of the range session. Works best when the barrel is still warm.

Whatever method that you use, pull the cleaning mechanism through the bore from chamber to muzzle whenever possible.

Don't be too concerned about loading to a recommended max in .45 ACP.
The operating pressures are low enough that a tenth or two variation in a powder measure won't make a whit of difference....Just don't go over max with a quick powder like Bullseye or HP-38. Slower powders like Unique are a little more forgiving. Also...any load published for use with a jacketed bullet will produce a bit less pressure with a lead bullet of the same weight.

Welcome to the Brotherhood of Powderheads! You'll soon find that you like the reloading about as much as the shooting. ;)

[Bloencustoms]

Thanks for the prompt, informative responses. I do get a good bit of enjoyment from reloading. :D It gives me an excuse to buy more gadgets and tools. My obsession with machines and moving parts interacting with each other is what drew me to guns in the first place. I suppose I knew I'd eventually get into reloading once I got over being intimidated by all the numbers and specifications. I bought a Dillon dial caliper a couple of days ago, and have been measuring everything I can get my hands on "just to see". Beyond that, I eventually want to find some good mail order sources for bulk supplies, and rig up some kind of brass catcher arrangement so I won't have to sort through the mess on the range floor to recover my cases. But, I'll save that for the appropriate forum.

Thanks again.

[Ken Grant]

Step your load up just a little and see if you have less leading.
Nearly all store bought bullets for .45ACP are supposed to be .452 but if you mike them,there will be a lot of them under sized. All store bought cast bullets are very hard and most have bevel bases. All of this can lead to leading problems.

A load that is heavy enought to upset the bullet will have less leading and a light load will have more leading.
Tuner is right,Kroil will work O.K. and so will the Lewis Lead Remover, but I have found,a copper scrub pad works great and lasts a long time plus it is fast and cheap :D

[Ken Grant]

I have found that if you coat your bought bullets with Lee Liquid Alox,it will really cut down on leading.
This is what I do with bought cast bullets for Glocks.I can shoot several hundred rds. with cast bullets and then fire 5 FMJ bullets after and have no leading at all.

[Gammon]

My experiences with lead bullets indicate that hardness is a factor. started loading swaged .45 bullets and experienced excessive leading at 875 fps. I lhave had great results using the industry standard 92% lead 6% antimony, and 2% tin at velocities approaching 1200 fps. These bullets in many calibers showed no signs of leading, perhaps because they filled the bore sufficiently to prevent gas cutting.
One thing does bother me. I was casting commercially using the above alloy and had some customers insist on using bullets of a diameter less than industry standard. One customer used a .356 155 swc in 38 loads and another used a .357 bullet in the same application, despite my advice to the contrary. Both these bullets were used in low velocity target loads and produced no excessive leading. According to what I have read, even light loads should have caused leading. What gives?