Springfield Mil-Spec is junk.

[Ruzhyo]

In November of 2002 I bought a Springfield 1911A-1 Mil Spec from Bill Hicks Co. I didn't use the gun until the later part of July 2004 when I enrolled in a New York State Armed Guard certification course. This is a 47 hour course of which approximately 20 hours is on the range running through various state mandated drills and qualifications; we also spent approximaely 6 hours doing tactical drills that our instructors thought would benefit us but was not part of the state mandated program. We were told to bring 1000 rounds of FMJ ammo or the ammo of your choice. I brought along 1000 rounds of Magtech 230 gr. ball ammo. Let's make a long story short. 54 jams, FTF's, double feeds and failure to eject out of 375 rounds using 16 different mags from 4 different manufactures. The gun is junk. I finished up the course using my Colt LW Commander with no problems. The Springfield is being shipped to Mike Johnson of Shooting Specialties in Chinook Montana who is once again going to make me a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I am having MIke replace every part in that piece of junk with quality aftermarket parts from Wilson, EGW, Ed Brown and C&S. No more Springfields for me. I will stick to Colt and pay the price!

[flycaster]

I assume that, since the pistol sat unused for most of two years, you stripped it down, cleaned and lubed it, then spent some range time with it before going to such an important event. If you did, then shame on Springfield; if not, then shame on you!

Chuck

[Ruzhyo]

Flycaster: I did strip it down and lube it up. I am not new at this game. You buy a gun, you expect it to go bang out of the box, not go bang twice and then jam the third round out of the barrel. I expect my guns ro go bang when they need to go bang. If manufacturers expect you to put 200 rounds through a gun to make sure it goes bang, then they shouldn't be in the gun business. I do not have that problem with my Colts, Glocks or HK's. I just like the 1911 better.

[Spitfire]

Hmmm 2 trips to the range 100 rounds of wally world remington fmj not a problem with mine even with the factory mags. Still getting used to shooting it, but so far and I know it's early I am completely satisfied with mine.

[Jammer Six]

Flycaster: I did strip it down and lube it up. I am not new at this game.

You sure sound new...

Are you sure you wouldn't rather sell that piece of junk?

[stans]

Let me get this straight, you bought a gun, stored it, then took it to a training course without ever test firing it?

[1911 TERRY]

Hmm, just my opinion, but if I were taking such an important qualifying course.I'd take a pistol, such as one of your Colts, Glocks, or HK's that you own, and not a new pistol I had sitting in a box unfired for 2 years that I didn't have total confidence and knowledge of. Don't mean this as a flame. Just my opinion!!

[Ruzhyo]

To all who have replied to my first post: I began shooting 1911's in 1969 when I entered the USMC. I shot them for the next 4 years. I did not like the Berettas and the military's political move to them. I continued to shoot 1911's up until the present, excluding my other guns . I carried a 1911 through 16 years of Gov't service, not Springfields, and do so today. In July of 2000 I bought a loaded Springfield PX 9151, put 8 rounds through it and it jammed so bad that I had to take a pair of pliers to pull the case out of it. It got sold real quick. I bought the Mll-Spec because I got a deal on it . You get what you pay for. THIS Mil-Spec Springfield is junk. It will get rebuilt to my satisfactions and I will probably carry it . But I will know that when I pull the trigger I will go BANG. Sorry if I offended you Springfield fans . I will buy Colts from now on. I had other guns to take to the NYS Armed Guard course, but I chose the Springfield out of the box to determine how it would perform. It didn't. Your arguments are all valid. I stand buy mine. This Springfield is junk.

[stumbler]

Have you talked to Springfield? Normally, one would try to solve the problem with the source before posting a flame. I have a SA, but I would not consider myself a "fan". I also have other 1911a1's. I had to do work on my Colt to get it to shoot reliably (for the ammo I was shooting).

Every gun should be test fired before being considered reliable. Revolvers have also been known not to work reliably. Sorry to hear of your discontent with the SA. I hope you get it fixed the way you want.

[1911Tuner]

Howdy Gyrene. Semper Fi, and welcome aboard.

Springfield has had some issues of late, and most seem to be centered around the extractors. I've ranted about it myself, but they seem to have addressed the problem, which was likely a vendor responsibility, since they don't actually make their extractors in house.

I'd suggest that your problem pistol will respond to the three following tips.

1...A good extractor, properly fitted and tensioned.

2...Good magazines. 7-rounders with the standard, dimpled follower and Wolff springs, please. I can't remember how many Pukin' Pistols that I've "fixed" by handing the owner a good magazine and havin' him try again.

3...Good ammo...and that doesn't necessarily mean high-end or exotic stuff.
USGI hardball or its equivalent in pressures and velocities, and hollowpoints
shouldn't be a problem if the overall lengths are correct and the barrel throat is correctly done...and the extractor is correctly tensioned and made of the right stuff.

I posted the results of a grueling test that I put a GI Mil-Spec Springer through not too long ago. It's on another forum, but I'll go find it and
post the link here. There were a few minor issues with the gun, but they were
easily resolved, and the pistol came through the torture test with flying colors.
I wouldn't hesitate to carry the gun, and have done so.

If there's anything that I can help you with, just sing out.

EDIT ADD: Here's the link. I don't remember if I posted a duplicate over here or not. I'm gettin' kinda old and sometimes the memory bank fails me... :rolleyes:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81964

Luck!

Tuner

[1911 TERRY]

I'm not what you'd call a Springfield fan. I bought the WWII GI model about 9 months ago. The first 150-200 rounds went thru it without any problems. I started having FTE's after that. I tried adjusting the extractor without success. I finally had a local gunsmith look at it. After he installed an Ed Brown extractor,all my problems went away. I paid $399.00 new for this pistol, and I now feel I've got a very good 45 acp. It's not a Colt, but I'm very pleased. I'll have the Colt one day soon, till then the Springer will do.

[wichaka]

I've been spending most of my shop time replacing parts in SA's lately.
I own 2 SA's, a Mil-Spec & a Loaded. I carry my loaded on duty. Although there's not many parts left in it that are SA.
But for a range - plinker gun, they are a good value. My Mil-Spec is still box stock.......and hasn't had a problem yet.
I've heard of some bad situations with some of the SA's, guess some are more fortunate than others. But then I've also heard some of those same stories from some Colt owners as well. Oh for the days of quality craftsmanship!

[eddie2tone]

I own 2 SA mil-specs and 1 'loaded'... no problems... but my colt can't even empty a mag without choking!

[gottripletsNC]

I firmly believe there are lemons in every bunch, therefore I don't doubt you had some problems, I have a WW2 Mil-Spec, although I think Springfield has changed the name to the GI model, and it fired wonderfully in hollow points from Winchester, and FMJ's from 3 different manufacturers, all 10$ per box of 50 cheap ammo. This was straight out of the box, I have modified a little to my weapon, and have seen a large change in the operation tho. My point I guess is what you want out of a weapon, expectations and servicability. I only have one 1911, so I have nothing to compare too other than friends of mine who have different models, short of a competition gun, I can tell no marked differences in the Springfield and others. I actually prefer mine if for no other reason that I have put many rounds through it, and am tuned to my particular gun.

Brian Hehl

[Hellebore]

Hi. I have one that has performed flawlessly. I carry it almost everyday.

[marko]

Hi all!
I'm new on this forum , I'm italian fan of 1911 and I've purchased a Mil Spec finally! it's on arrival because the gun shop had not in stock and has ordered it so I haven't had the possibility to try it but reading the various post where are mentioned problems and other with Mil Spec I'm honestly afraid :eek:
but I want to trust in the statistic when they say the Mil Spec is a great and reliable gun :)

[1911Tuner]

Howdy marko,

In case you didn't catch this on the previous page...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthre...&threadid=81964

Can't speak for the others, but this one survived the torments of the 9th level of hell... :cool:

[cottontoptexan]

Dear Ruzhyo, This is Curtis here in Washington State. I read your forum on the 19ll website. Here is what i need . I would like to have my Auto Ordinance 199A1 U.S. Army model rebuilt . Nothing major just a decent hammer sear and maybe new springs. Many of the other parts have been replaced. I would like to speak to a gunsmith about this and see if they are feasible to spend any money on. I have 3 other 45's a Kimber, Colt Mark 4 series 80, and a Springfield Armory Champion which is superb in reliability but a terrible trigger.
Question: Can you send me the name of the gunsmith in Chinook , Montana where i could get in touch with him on rebuilding the AO. cottontoptexan@aol.com

[PaleRyder]

That's interesting. The only Colt I ever had, a Commander, was extremely unreliable. The 4 Springfields I've had, and a Kimber, all performed very well.

I have a Springfield Loaded and a Milspec currently. Both work just fine.

[flycaster]

Just short of 1000 rounds through my Loaded so far: accurate, totally dependable. I wouldn't give mine up for anything.

Chuck

[Locked In 1911]

With the mentality of your previous posts, you'd been better off with a Glock.

Sounds like your gun was as stubborn as you are, maybe it didn't like that Craptech ammo? Certainly sounds like it.

[John]

With the mentality of your previous posts, you'd been better off with a Glock.

Sounds like your gun was as stubborn as you are, maybe it didn't like that Craptech ammo? Certainly sounds like it.
Can we please keep it on a non-personal level?

Thanks

[1911Tuner]

Can we please keep it on a non-personal level?

Thanks


I can't figure out who he was aimin' that at, John... :confused: :D

[wichaka]

I think it was for the one who started this thread........a bit of a delayed reaction eh? :confused:

[John]

That makes two of us Tuner, but I thought that this clarification was to be asked by ... whoever owns a Glock.

My involvement was purely for ... policy reasons.

Rgds

[Thompsongunner]

Well All I can say is I bought a new MIL SPEC about a month ago and it hasn't had a single problem! So far I have put around 400 rds through it. The accuracy is good, the trigger is good with no failures to feed or eject!!!


But then I also have a 1918, 1911 that my uncle gave me that belong to his brother. When I got this pistol it had 1 in the chamber and the mag had 7 rds in it and they were date stamped 1957. My uncle said he hasn't messed with it since the 60's :rolleyes: well I just had to see how well it would work! So I made sure the bore was clear and off to the range I went" no disassembly, no lube and no cleaning" with a box of 230 fmj,,,,50 rounds and no malfunctions!!! with a mag that had been stacked full for close to 40 years :eek:


If I could have only one pistol my choice would be a 1911, you just can't beat a good one :)

Gunner

[1911Tuner]

Awww...He prob'ly didn't mean nothin' personal. Might be that he's just a
"Lay the cards on the table" kinda guy. A logical thought process tends to do that sometimes. Also could be that Locked In is a die-hard 1911 fan that
knows what a good one is capable of, and takes exception if somebody bad-mouths'em. Understandable. I leap to defend'em myself...but the sad, ugly truth is that they're being churned out in such huge numbers these days that
the manufacturers' main interest is in meeting demand, and attention to detail naturally falls off. Whenever that happens, quality suffers. Ironic that
the 1911's popularity and reputation is a big part of the reason for its problems. There was a time that this wasn't the case.

If the 1911 and its clones and variants were built to blueprint specs, and
had individual attention from people who actually knew what they were
doin', this keyboard would rust up solid before guys like me and Wichaka
had to help with functional problems. As it seems, the guns are now bein' assembled by people whose job description about a month ago was askin': "Will that be paper or plastic, ma'am?"

Even the warranty station armorers don't really seem to completely understand the guns that they're paid to repair and whip into submission. I can't remember how many pistols that I've worked on after the owner tells me that it's been back to (Name your favorite manufacturer) 2 or 3 times without solving the problem...and the "fix" takes about 30 minutes. I'm talkin' simple stuff! Too many times, it's consisted of handin' the guy a good magazine and havin' him come back in amazement that the gun ate 500 rounds and never burped. Or doin' a 10-minute extractor modification and tweak with the same results. Even worse...just recently I had occasion to
tend to a Colt Officer's Model that had given the owner fits for over 10 years, despite havin' been back to Colt twice...one local smith...and had undergone a complete rebuild by a well-known custom smith...and still had the same problems. The fix took about an hour and was so amazingly simple that I still can't figure out why it wasn't corrected earlier. He reports that the gun hasn't missed a beat since. When I got the gun, it wouldn't go through a single magazine without hangin' up.

Flat statement:

Functional problems with most 1911s...probably upward of 95%...are usually due to somethin' simple, and is often just as simple to correct. It's mostly knowin' WHAT causes the problem and thinkin' about it before jumpin' in. 10% knowledge, 10% logic, and 80% patience. The thing ain't exactly a Swiss watch, and but most of'em will run like one, even if things are a little outta whack if we remember the tripod that reliability stands on. Good magazines...Good extractors...Good ammo.

So...Allow me to extend the hand of friendship to Locked In 1911 and say
Welcome aboard. I truly understand how it is when ya hear these things and know that it can be different with just a little understandin' of the gun. That's why I do these forums.

Cheers!

[John]

Tuner and all,

We are all friends here, but we have to remember that writing is not equal to speaking. Some remarks can be taken personally if written, while no one would have a second thought if they were spoken face to face.

So let's be a little more careful.

Of course, Locked In 1911 is welcome here and we do appreciate the time he spends with us, like we do for all members.

Rgds

[lil toad]

My sentiments exactly. We are hopefully among friends. The written word can often be mis-construed( I think that's spelled correctly). Even good humor can. I am no exception to that. This is a great forum, albeit a 1911 forum. However, all should be welcomed, given they wish to accept the rules. Who knows, we may even be able to turn some from the dark side and jump on board?

[cottontoptexan]

Gentlemen,
Thanks for all of the nice replies concerning these pistols. I agree with Tuner on his recent post. My Colt fell into this category. Nice finish well put together but with an extractor so tight it is a wonder it fed anything. I guess it is a competitive market and some pistols deliberately made to large tolerances will function even if things are a bit off. Nice fitting accurate guns on the other hand take that extra care to insure things are right. I made the mistake many years ago of picking up a 1911 made some time around 1927. It belonged to a friend i was hunting with and i guess you could say i did not want to put it down. I had to have one. Well the love affair has just grown and now i have 4 of them and stilll am amazed at the great design Mr. Browning came up with. It is just a wonderful piece of machinery.
Keep the nice info coming for us guys whom are not real pistolsmiths but do some tinkering.

[1911Tuner]

CottontopTexan said:

Keep the nice info coming for us guys whom are not real pistolsmiths but do some tinkering.
____________________

Hey! All the tinkerers are in good company, mah fren. John Browning was a tinkerer too, after all... :cool:

[Mustang]

Love my Springfield. Zero problems at about the 1000 round mark.

[Mustang]

Had my Springfield out again today, 200 rounds. Not a problem one.

[OD*]

2K rounds w/o failure, w/o cleaning. Some parts changed out before firing though.

http://gunpix.com/gallery%2FHandguns%2FSemi%2DAutos%2FS%2EA%2E%20W%2EW%2Ejpg


edited fur spellun'

[White]

No problems yet.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/gilgamboa/sprin3.jpg

[etimmerAZ]

Man I've got HUGE problems. That mil spec of mine has me crazy . . . I can't stop shooting it. :D I've gone through 2500 rounds with no problems but a lot of people who see it's a Springfield all seem to offer the "experts opinion" that they have nothing but problems. Well, the only problem I have is that I shoot it a lot and I spend plenty of money of Bulk 45 ACP. Oh, wait. I guess this is not the problem some people are wanting addressed. :rolleyes:

--
Erik
"Most shooting problems come from the shooter not the gun."
-- General Patton did not say this . . . but wanted to.

[Jerry1949]

To the original poster of this thread.

If I had THAT many/much problems with a NIB gun, it would have gone back to the manufacturer, irregardless of how long I had owned it before shooting it.....not an independent GS. I Own three Sa's and have never had any problems other than my wife complaining about buying THREE of them.....

[sbvann]

In November of 2002 I bought a Springfield 1911A-1 Mil Spec from Bill Hicks Co. I didn't use the gun until the later part of July 2004 when I enrolled in a New York State Armed Guard certification course. This is a 47 hour course of which approximately 20 hours is on the range running through various state mandated drills and qualifications; we also spent approximaely 6 hours doing tactical drills that our instructors thought would benefit us but was not part of the state mandated program. We were told to bring 1000 rounds of FMJ ammo or the ammo of your choice. I brought along 1000 rounds of Magtech 230 gr. ball ammo. Let's make a long story short. 54 jams, FTF's, double feeds and failure to eject out of 375 rounds using 16 different mags from 4 different manufactures. The gun is junk. I finished up the course using my Colt LW Commander with no problems. The Springfield is being shipped to Mike Johnson of Shooting Specialties in Chinook Montana who is once again going to make me a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I am having MIke replace every part in that piece of junk with quality aftermarket parts from Wilson, EGW, Ed Brown and C&S. No more Springfields for me. I will stick to Colt and pay the price!
i have a springfield mil-spec. in stainless and no problems at all after using 150rolls-Bill