Bells and whistles

[hurrakane212]

So what bells and whistles are actually worth the money for a self-defense 1911? I would venture to say good sights and dehorning but other than that, what really adds to a 1911? And what does the backstrap/frontstrap do?~Nathan

[OD*]

"... We have long maintained that the only accessories that a 1911 needs are a trigger you can manage, sights that you can see, and a dehorning job. That still goes."
Col. Jeff Cooper
I have to agree with the good Colonel, trinkets are a matter of personal tastes.

[chul_soo]

well... if your a good shot u don't really need all the cooler things on your pistol. but for the other 75% of the world... they need to buy a lazer pointer, or bull barrel, etc, etc... i say buy ammo and go practice with wut you got. now if you have a sorry gun that jams all the time... that's a totally different problem.

[Hawkmoon]

Unless you like night sights, I'm not even sure that "good sights" (whatever that means) are all that essential for a strictly self-defense gun. Most self-defense shootings occur at distances of 15 yards or less ... usually a LOT less. And there often isn't time to really acquire a perfect sight picture, so it's more often either point-and-shoot, or put the front sight on center-of-mass and shoot.

I certainly wouldn't bother with any sights that increase the likelihood of keeping the pistol stuck in the holster, or snagged on my cover garment.

It's not often I disagree with Cooper, and perhaps I don't really disagree here. But I think the statement needs amplification/clarification.

[nemesis]

So what bells and whistles are actually worth the money for a self-defense 1911?

Decent grips, some good mags, a good carry belt and holster, ammo, some more ammo, extra ammo.

I have to agree with the good Colonel, trinkets are a matter of personal tastes.

Taste? A poster in another thread wanted a recommendation for what tacticool light "would look best" on his gun.

[Moose63845]

What I like are night sights, dehorned, good trigger, front strap checkering (I find it gives me a better grip), arched mainspring housing, mags that work all the time.

[OD*]

Hawk,

When Cooper wrote that (IIRC), he was referring to the sights they used on the original GSP, the closet to those offered now, are the Yost-Bonitz retro's. At that same time, 1911s had the small GI sights for the most part and not the King-Tappan "Hardballer" type sights generally found on base guns today. Personally, I think he was and still is, spot on. As far as, "And there often isn't time to really acquire a perfect sight picture" we agree and Cooper wrote on that very thing years ago when he promoted a flash sight picture.

[Blasterboy]

A 3.5 lb trigger, extended thumb safety and Novak low mount fixed sights. Anything else is a TOTAL waste of money. Like the man said.....dry practice, dry practice, dry parctice...then spend anything left over on ammunition....

[Tom in Ohio]

I believe that anything that will actually help the pistol function better or help fit your hand better is money well spent. The first thing I put on my pistol was a set of slim Alumagrips. After that, I replaced MIM parts with better made/better fitting parts. I polished what needed polishing and the last thing I did was checker the front strap. Be wary of "competition" parts or parts that may sacrifice reliability for accuracy (extended mag releases and extended slide stops come immediately to mind)

[Saskia Quelle]

The only thing you realistically want from your gun when the SHTF is for it to go *bang* when you pull the trigger.

Everything else is secondary.

[littledoc]

I agree 100%. Even caliber is a secondary consideration. Rule 1 of a gunfight is have a gun.

With that being said, dehorning, commander hammer (more snag free), good trigger, and decent sights that you are comfortable using. The rest is all trim level and cup holders. Oh, yeah, a good set of grips.

[Blasterboy]

Of the above that are a waste of money...Stocks of any type material or checkering pattern...head this list. Stocks are and have become more a cosmetic than ergonomic consideration. This precludes competition and target shooting. For recreational and defensive shooting techniques , all this concern over which material or style stock one is going to buy, is mainly vanity driven, just to make his weapon appear..one of a kind or pleasing to it's owner. If the shooter employs the proper grip...his hands will actually have no or very little contact with the weapons stock panels...!! and well they shouldn't. Sooo, my point is that stocks on a semi-auto are more a fashion statement thing than a serious consideration to improve accuracy etc. The emphasis on weapons contact should center on the front and/or backstrap primarily.

[littledoc]

Of the above that are a waste of money...Stocks of any type material or checkering pattern...head this list.

Not really. Grips serve a purpose as well. They are designed to keep crud out of the mag well and they do offer a gripping surface. Not as important as the front and back strap, but there is contact with the hand. The more surface area you are in contact with the better.

So material and style do matter. They need to be of strong material. You may want to purchase some that are impervious to the environment you will be using it in. Wood isn't the best choice for wet environments/salt water. Maybe, you sweat a lot.

Another consideration is are you going to conceal it. An aggressive checkering pattern like found on most OEM grips are not a good idea. The checkering can "gather" the concealing garment during normal movement. The same can be said of the "live" feeling of some rubber grips. It can grab the clothing. These can also tear up the inside of your clothes after using them for a while.

Most grip purchases are to increase the cool factor, I agree. :D Still, there are good, objective reasons to choose a new set for your firearm.

[Blasterboy]

Littledoc,
All your reasons for the need for stocks are all valid in the general sense for the broad brush application of why we need panels an the sides of our grip frames or revolvers. My earlier statement addressed a specific grip used in a specific application. That being a "strong, aggressive combat grip" used in a defensive scenario to stop someones violent attack on you or your family. It allows the shooter to produce accurate, sustained fire to the target without the need to "regrip" after every shot. In this case, the palms of the firing side and support side hands do not...or have very little contact with the weapon and subsequent stock panels. Why...??? Because lateral pressure on the frame of the gun will increase the possibility of movement of the muzzle, thus increasing the chance of non-hits downrange. I teach this technique at my school and have had "mucho" success with it among the students and once learned, they love it, as the hits keep coming and the groups get smaller. The key is isometric pressure front to rear and no lateral pressure. Try it the next time you are at the range.
Does a "plinker" or other recreational shooters fire their guns with they hands and palms in contact with the stocks panels..?? probably. Are they shooting to the highest possible level of their abilities..?? Probably not..!!
Good luck..

[OD*]

Blasterboy

What is the name of your school and I believe you said you taught at Front Sight also?

[Blasterboy]

OD,
I taught at Front Sight from 1999 to 2004. My school is to be located in Park County, Colo. and is called the School of Defensive Gun Craft. "SDG" for short. We will offer classes in pistol, rifle and shotgun.. just a short shameless commercial...

[OD*]

Great, thank you.

I hope this isn't a sore spot with you but, do you know of the status of the lawsuit that Front Sight is embroiled in?

[SargeMO]

I have to agree with the good Colonel, trinkets are a matter of personal tastes.

You beat me to the punch, Dan. Agree 100%- on the rest of it, too. If one keeps a clear perspective about what the 1911 is and what it was designed for it all falls into place.

You saved me some typing, Amigo;)

[Blasterboy]

A very good friend of mine is one of the prime movers in the suit. As to the particulars in said suit....I don't know a thing. I would rather keep it that way, although, at this point, the word is that it is going forward.

[Hunter]

It would seem Saskia is all over this one. I myself enjoy shooting my Colt Gold Cups at the range but for defensive carry I like to keep it simply. The basic 1911 design really does it for me. So far my favorite carry pistol is my little Colt 1991A1 Compact. Nice and simple, works every time, and easy to carry. Not to mention it is a .45 ACP.

[OD*]

Hey Sarge!
How are ya? The web sight is looking great, keep up the good work amigo.

Another quote that can be applied to the 1911;
"The Way of the warrior is to master the virtue of his weapons." - Miyamoto Musashi, Go Rin No Sho (1645)

[littledoc]

Littledoc,
All your reasons for the need for stocks are all valid in the general sense for the broad brush application of why we need panels an the sides of our grip frames or revolvers. My earlier statement addressed a specific grip used in a specific application. That being a "strong, aggressive combat grip" used in a defensive scenario to stop someones violent attack on you or your family. It allows the shooter to produce accurate, sustained fire to the target without the need to "regrip" after every shot. In this case, the palms of the firing side and support side hands do not...or have very little contact with the weapon and subsequent stock panels. Why...??? Because lateral pressure on the frame of the gun will increase the possibility of movement of the muzzle, thus increasing the chance of non-hits downrange. I teach this technique at my school and have had "mucho" success with it among the students and once learned, they love it, as the hits keep coming and the groups get smaller. The key is isometric pressure front to rear and no lateral pressure. Try it the next time you are at the range.
Does a "plinker" or other recreational shooters fire their guns with they hands and palms in contact with the stocks panels..?? probably. Are they shooting to the highest possible level of their abilities..?? Probably not..!!
Good luck..


I agree with you. I have been using the proper grip since about the time a second digit was added to my age. ;) Heck, the grip is more important than the stance. One handed, two handed, moving, even running, your grip should not change.

I was just trying to illustrate that there are valid reasons to put on the correct stock panels. You'll notice that my considerations did not have much to do with actually holding on to the thing. Let's face it, a defensive firearm lives in it's holster much more than in the hand and the stocks are going to be the part most in contact with the outside environment. Unfortunately, most OEM stocks seem to be more form over function these days. Which is fine for most firearms sold, but not for a working pistol. You can shoot without the stocks, but a broken one can mess up your hand. And Mr. Murphy says that it won't happen until the moment you need it.

If you want to dress them up, that's a matter of personal taste, but not what I was trying to get at.

[littledoc]

OD,
I taught at Front Sight from 1999 to 2004. My school is to be located in Park County, Colo. and is called the School of Defensive Gun Craft. "SDG" for short. We will offer classes in pistol, rifle and shotgun.. just a short shameless commercial...


I've heard good things about you guys. Do you have a web page?

[Blasterboy]

Littledoc,
We are looking to be up and runnning in about 6 months. Our website in about 2-3 months. I will make a post here in the general forum that our website is up and those interested, can log on.....

[scooter]

My 4X+ year old eyes dont work as well in low light anymore so My CTC lasergrips are the best addition to my carry weapon I have made...just food for thought here.....http://forum.m1911.org/images/icons/icon11.gif