Does Anybody Own a LLama?

[2guntom]

Does anybody own a Llama .45 1911 clone? If so, tell me all about.
How does it shoot?
Any problems?
How much have you shot it?


2gun

[geneh]

I have two, a full size and a officer model size, while not true 1911 clones they both shoot well after the feedramps were polished.

[Hawkmoon]

Does "not true 1911 clones" mean that the pistols are in some way functionally different from other 1911s, or simply that not all parts are 100% interchangable with Colt 1911s?

I suppose I'm opening up a semantic can of worms, but it seems to me that if the design and operation are the same as a Colt 1911, then the gun is a clone even if it doesn't have 100% parts interchangability. A S&W is considered a 1911 clone, yet it has an external extractor. SIG Sauer now makes a gun that seems accepted as a 1911 clone, yet it has a rather ugly equipment rail on the bottom of the frame and SIG intentionally changed the appearance of the slide to "make it look like a SIG." Without even getting into a discussion of whether or not the Para Ordnance LDAs are 1911s (clones or otherwise), Para now has a revised "power" extractor that is quite different from those in other 1911s and not interchangable therewith, yet their single action models are (I think) generally accepted as clones.

I have always wondered, then, why so many 1911 aficionados are unwilling to consider the Llamas (and now Firestorms, which I believe are the same gun) as 1911s or 1911 "clones."

[stans]

Although Llama's look similar too, are patterned after, and function the same as the true 1911, it is my understanding that few true 1911 parts will fit in the Llama, at least not without modification. So you really cannot call such a pistol a clone of the 1911. Auto Ordnance, Charles Daly, Kimber, Norinco, Springfield Armory, Dan Wesson, and a bunch more make or did make clones of the 1911 in which parts were interchangeable. Some minor fitting of parts might be necessary with the 1911 clones, but nothing major should be required. It gets fuzzy now that we have all these firing pins safeties, integral gun locks, and different extractor designs, each design being somewhat unique and requiring their own set of unique parts.

A true clone would not have any deviation from the original 1911 or 1911-A1 design and there are a number of companies that are making clones that basically vary only in the materials used in the parts. Such materials deviations would be using cast or MIM parts instead of machined parts and not using spring steel for the extractor.

[geneh]

Didn't mean to open a can of worms guys. I can say I do enjoy shooting the Llamas along with my other "clones", a sam, rock island, armscor Medallion, and a charles daly efs. The other four seem to be closer to orginial specs than the llama/firestorms.

[2guntom]

I have two, a full size and a officer model size........they both shoot well after the feedramps were polished.

Thank you! That is the information I have been seeking!

I have been looking at the Llamas for a while, but couldn't find anybody that owned or shot one. For as little money as they cost, if all I have to do is give the feedramp a spit-polish, that's fine.

Do not worry about opening a can of worms; that blame is on my shoulders. I have been begging the owner of these forums for a Llama section.

If you will humor me, I have a few questions still.

How many rounds have you put through each Llama?

Is it just 230gr. ball?

How about hollowpoints?

Does any brand of magazine work with them, or some better than others?

Thanks again for your reply and I eagerly await your answers.

2gun

[geneh]

The compact I bought used on a gun auction, it has some wear on the matt finish. I didn't shoot it before I polished the feedramp. I have only run about 50 rounds thru the pistol, mostly winchester 230 white box jhp. The full size is a blue with nickel or crome parts. I have not polished anything on it. It seems to feed fine but I have not shot it much. The trigger pulls on both are gritty. I think they are a good value if you can keep the investment around 200.00 or less. When the cost gets around 280 or so the better option might be a Rock Island GI. The newer model Llama's will use standard 1911 mags fine. The older ones sometimes will not. The stange thing is the llama mags will not fit in a standard 1911, they are to wide. I think many of the internal parts can be interchanged with standard 1911 parts. I have not had to replace any.

[John]

Gentlemen,

The Llama/Firestorm forum was started to discuss these 1911 clones. Most of us are aware that some may not consider these pistols to be 100% copies of the 1911, but let's not make this an issue here.

Use the forum to discuss your questions about these pistols (not the non-1911 based ones that these companies make), use them as a means to gather information etc.

Thank you.

[kakos_theo]

I have owned my new llama for two months now, I've fired about seven hundred rounds through it, and I can safely say that this gun may be a cheap knockoff but it's a great value for the price. I paid 215.63$ after tax and with regular ball ammo and the factory mag the gun has never jammed on me and it's quite accurate; I trust this gun to defend my life. now with cheap ammo and mags I've had this gun jam, but I was using ten dollar eight round mags and the cheapest, aluminum case, non reloadable ammo I could get. again with mil surp ball ammo and the factory mag it's never jammed, through something like 500 rounds. now the gun could probably use a trigger job and some polishing and some loctite on the pluger tube screws and grip screws but if you set your expectations properly you will be able to get much enjoyment out of the gun. let me know if you need more info

[2guntom]

Kakos theo, thank you; that is good information. If you trust your life with it, then that settles that.

You did not mention hollow points. Do you intend to try any?

I assume that you have the full-sized 5" model MAX-I 45. Is that correct?

2guntom

[kakos_theo]

2guntom,

yeah I have the full-size max I. I haven't tried any hollowpoints yet, I don't really plan on it because I'm satisfied in my mind at least that seven or eight rounds of the FMJ will stop anybody trying to come into my house without permission, and I wouldn't be able to stand the sight of a hollowpoint jam. I don't really trust them anyway in the 1911, and I'm not sure that the barrels are throated on these llamas, I'm not experienced enough to tell by looking. it's a nice gun though, definitely a good value for the money especially if you find it on sale like I did. consider the fact that when I scratched the frame the first time I reinstalled the slide lock it didn't really bother me, in fact I'm kind of proud of my first scratch on it, now I don't have to feel bad about the second or third whenever they happen. most people aren't capable of feeling that way about the 1,000$ plus custom guns they shoot with, that may or may not jam just like mine when used with cheap ammo and mags

[chitoryu2454]

Recently purchased new Llama mini-max 45.....haven't had a chance to shoot it due to bad weather here in northern ky USA.....did strip and oil it though to get familiar with break down of bull barrel. trigger feels fine...smooth...did do the "poor man's triger job" on it.
also stripped magazine polished it and re-blued it as it was a really rough finish. by the way ...the 8 round mec-gar mags seem to feed with it......anyone have information on third party mags?......more after shootng a couple of hundred rounds

[kakos_theo]

there are three kinds of mags I've tried so far. the factory mag works fine but doesn't look very nice. I bought some of the el cheapo mags from either sportman's guide or cheaper than dirt, I don't remember, but they were the eight round mags with a plastic follower for like fifteen bucks, and they don't work hardly at all. if you have an empty one in the gun with the slide locked back and you hit the slide release it doesn't even release all the way becuase of the magazine. the only other mag I've tried is the chip mccormick shooting star eight round mag, and it not only works perfectly but it looks great and has a steel follower and easy to see numbered holes and everything, and I think I actually found some of these for less than twenty a peice somewhere. the only mags I will buy for my llama now are the chip mccormick shooting star, they're awesome.

[kakos_theo]

I finally got a chance to shoot some hollowpoints out of my llama max I .45, someone gave me some of the regular white box winchester 230gr JHP, I fired two mags of eight rounds each, one mag jammed twice and the other didn't at all, both chip mccormick shooting star mags. please note that I haven't polished anything at all on the gun yet, I wanted to wait until like 2500 rounds and a full tear down before I whipped out the dremel tool and jeweler's rouge. one thing noteable about the gun is that the loading ramp is visibly rough from the factory, but it doesn't really jam with even the el cheapo ammo unless I'm using a really crappy magazine. I'm confident that once I get to about 2000 rounds or so and break it down and polish some things that it will never jam again as long as I stick to hardball ammo, which I plan on doing. Still a gun I would trust to save my life, more so the more I go out to shoot it.

[larryf1952]

I own a duotone Llama Max-I C/F. I've probably put about 500 rounds through it. I've shot nothing but 185 and 200 grain JHP's...my own handloads, using Remington and Hornady bullets. I've had no problems with feeding or jams. I did take a piece of crocus cloth to the feed ramp for a smoother polish, and I use a MecGar magazine.

When I first got the pistol, the trigger would jam up, and it was impossible to fire a round. I didn't want to send the pistol in for warranty work, so I completely detail stripped the pistol, and I found a casting burr on the frame that was preventing the trigger from going through its entire travel. I removed the burr, and all is now well. The trigger pull is still a bit heavy and gritty, but seems to be improving. I've learned what to expect with it, and it doesn't bother me. I am surprised at the accuracy of the Llama, I can consistently ring a 10" gong at 50 yards offhand.

For a $250 pistol that I purchased just to use as a "beater" and take some of the heat off my Springfield and Kimber, I've been very pleased with it, after I worked out a couple of kinks.

[kakos_theo]

wow maybe once I polish mine I can go get some more hollowpoints and try them out...

[agrotom]

I have a full size 1911 in 38 super and a Mini Max. They both shoot great, but nothing fits from the other 1911 brands. The Mini Max is one of my best shooting .45s out of the box and the .38 super is not too shaby either. Not bad for $425 investment. :)

[chitoryu2454]

does anyone have any information on mec-gar 7round magazines for use with the llama minmax 45?
larryf1952 .....read the "poor man's trigger job" posted at this site.....my mini max was only a little gritty at first but i followed the instructions in the aforementioned post and it seemed to help. i did it while watching tv for a few nites. things like this seem to work best if you are not in a hurray and can be patient......good luck and compliments of the season to all.

[chitoryu2454]

did a little shooting with my new llama minimax 45. first thing i noticed is that the spent casings bonk me in the head (is my head too big?). the gun had several midfeeds for about ther first 36 rounds. it seemed to do much better with 230gr jacketed hollow points than fmj....now there's a switch. it seems to be geting into a groove now as this morning i shot 24 rnds and the results were much better for both. any ideas on changing the trajectory of the spent casings?

[charliecrusader]

Both have been Max I L/F .45 . First one had a problem with the extractor wearing down so had the company deal with it and ended up with a new pistol out of the deal. Very happy with my second one. Have had it for about a year now and have run 500-600 rounds through it. Eats everything I feed it, wolf 230 fmj, and round nose. Feeds Federal Hydrashoks JHP without flaw, but seems to choke on Winchester JHP. I haven't figured out why, but I carry 165gr Federals so I'm not really that worried about it. Had to do some little TLC to it, but for $288.00 for a new sidearm I'm fine with that. Have a friend who bought a Kimber compact new for $1100.00 and it won't feed any hollow points yet, so I can't feel too bad about my girl.
Love this forum, surfed over from Packing.org
Travis

[Bear]

Hi all. I bought my Llama to prove to a pal that you did'nt have to pay that much to get a good gun. My pistol is a Max-II 45L/F (the original model) its a double stack two-tone. I've shot it every weekend at the local club match since I bought it and it's a winner. I've not had a jam thus far. So far it has cycled: FMJ, SWC, JHP, BEB, Gold Dot, Golden Sabers, Hydra-Shock, Bear Claw, Silvertips, and SXT. It also has cycled plenty of reloads. However my uncle has an older model single stack and his does'nt like any thing but FMJ. Hope this helps you make a decision.

Enjoy Safe Shooting!
Bear

[captbill]

Hey Bear, I just bought a new Firestorm last week, it is the Compact model, same size as my Colt Combat Commander. Has a good feel to it. Took it apart tonight,field stripped it, took grips off and checked it. Oiled and gunslick lubed the pistol, wiped all the interior parts with "Sheath" a spray on lube. Hopefully in the morn I can take up in the hills and shoot it.Ordered some wood grips for it. Will see how they are when they get here. A word to the wise, don't order Colt 1911 grips, they will not fit, you must order grips for an LLama, I'm pretty sure your pistol is the same frame size as mine. Ciao, Bill ;) :D

[Bear]

Hi Bill. The grip frame on my MAX-II is about twice the width of a standard 1911 due to the double stack mag. I'm very impressed with the cost to performance ratio. Hope yours shoots as accurately as you want. To all users who are considering a Llama: IT'S WORTH IT!

Enjoy safe shooting!
Bear

[captbill]

I was originally looking a Llama in Combat Commander size in 9mm, then I saw the ad for the MAX II with the large capacity mag in 9mm, there were'nt any available, and I decided that with the price I was given for the "Compact" in .45, what the heck. Nice to hear someone with the large capacity is onboard. Sure seems like it is a heavy pistol though in .45. Glad you like it, Ciao, Bill :)

[Bear]

Bill. The new series MAX-II will be available from Import Sports at the end of March. I called them looking for mags for my pistol and they told me that they will be made available on the new gun's release date. There is an order list that you can get on by calling them. When the gun is released they will call you.

Enjoy safe shooting!
Bear

[dtdprobe]

I am new to the forum and 1911's in general, so please bear with me. I am buying a Firestorm .45 gov't on Saturday. I wanted to know if anyone has tried the .22lr conversion kits on a Firestorm/Llama? I can pick up a Ciener conversion for $150 that has only been used once. no warranty, but it still seems like a good deal, especially nice i dont think i can afford to shoot .45ACP all the time.

Thanx for the help and advice.

[res1b3uq]

Be sure it fits before you lay down your money.

[Weaver]

I am new to this forum and new to owning a 1911 .. three weks ago I found and bought the firestorm .45 government model ..from the moment I held it , i was impressed by its solid build and its matte black finish ..
I searched a few forums and read some good things about them and quickly decided to buy one .. 239.00 $ from the first time I shot it i was impressed , with both its feel , its safety features , and of course its accuracy ,I swabbed the barrel and started shooting the first night , and after the first 50 rnds I learned the easiness of 1911 tear down :-) after shooting revolvers for the last 4 years being able to take the gun apart was not only fun but ALOT easier to help its break in period , I nylon ( detail) brushed all the meeting edges and used some rem lube teflon oil on all the parts I could get to ,
the next night I fired another 50-70 rnds and recleaned / brushed as I had the night before , this time i used white lithium grease on the slide just a small amount ( fiquired if grease worked in WW1 it would work today ,
I have fired it thru right at about 500 rnds to date cleaning and lubing every 50-100 rnds , as well as lightly nevr dulling/ polishing the feed ramp , alho the ramp did have a nice smoothness to start , I was just helping things blend together
the first 500 rnds have been without Any jams what so ever and I am shooting 3 inch groups out to 50 ft .. 3 shot bursts .. I am new to auto.s in general but i must say this gun has been an easy learning curve and a spectacular amount of fun thus far ..
the only thing of note has been that I bought a mc Cormick shooting star 8 rnd clip and it kept falling out everytime the gun fired , i took it back to the most excellent dealer I bought the Magazine from and he dressed up the mag catch in about 10 minutes and i was on my way .
the weight of the gun I find is Perfect and I enjoy the heavier ( recoil taming) nature of Beast ( nickname) lol ..
My best friend is buying another one this sat. and we will be shooting most of the weekend , I'll let you know if his works as nicely as mine has ..
sorry for the long reply , but my happiness over this gun is longwinded !!
I have been shooting winchestor 230 FMJ (100 box) target loads , and have another 300 for the weekend !!!

[Focuspzev04]

I just bought a llama and on one side of the gun it says llama cal. 9 parabellum and on the other side it says Gabilondo y cia. vitoria (espana). Now I can't seem to find any info on this gun at all. Any help would be great.

[bayernutz]

I bought one two weeks ago, it is able to shoot tight groups. One thing you should know is that the slide port is too tall, you will get some brass to hit there and bounce off and hit you in the head. The one one mine is .558 from the bottom of slide to the top of the port, the one on my colt is .455 and it has no problems. You might want to check the one out you are looking at, to see if all of them are this way. I have seen more threads on this problem. The trigger is a little gritty. By the way it was a .45 mini-max.

[doncameron]

I've owned a Llama .380 for about 6 years and love it!
I bought a .45 about 6 months ago and never had any problems!

[chuckshoun]

I have a friend who got a Llama. He shot it once, but I can't get him to tell me how he likes it.Seems he's a writing guy, and doesn't use the computer, so I'll probably never learn how the Llama went until I visit him in Kentucky.

[doncameron]

I put 500 rds. thru my .45 today, using origanal clips and Colt clips, NO Problems!!!!

I have installed a bushing compensator and an extended slide release, everything
worked great.

[Big Foot]

I just bought a llama and on one side of the gun it says llama cal. 9 parabellum and on the other side it says Gabilondo y cia. vitoria (espana). Now I can't seem to find any info on this gun at all. Any help would be great.Since I didn't get immediate assistance on my Llama, I purchased a book on Spanish Handguns...It has a lot of useful info, so let us know what info. you are seeking and maybe we can help...

[doncameron]

I've had a Llama .380 for years and love it!
I bought a Max-I .45 about 10 months ago, I love it also!
They both shot whatever kind of ammo I put in them with no problems.

[pimp my 45]

I've got a Llama minimax45 subcompact and hasn't been shot yet due to some problems with it cann't talk bad about it. I think I'm one of the few people who have gotten a lemon instead of an orange most people I've talked to love there Llama's and havn't had a major problem yet the only thing I can tell you is you get what you paid for.

[wganz]

I've got a Llama minimax45 subcompact and hasn't been shot yet due to some problems with it canno't talk bad about it. I think I'm one of the few people who have gotten a lemon instead of an orange most people I've talked to love their Llama's and haven't had a major problem yet the only thing I can tell you is you get what you paid for.

Who's got a Llama?? :D

My son && I haven't gotten to shoot it yet due to the hammer pin being bent and the hammer has some of rear cracked off where the hammer strut pin goes through on one side.

Another m1911 denizen said he successfully used stock 1911 parts(disconnecter, sear, hammer, etc) on his and we're going to do the same on this skat stack. It is our project gun and it is going to run when we finish with it. :cool:

wganz
¶

[Dirtwasp87]

Since I didn't get immediate assistance on my Llama, I purchased a book on Spanish Handguns...It has a lot of useful info, so let us know what info. you are seeking and maybe we can help...

May I ask what is the title of the Spanish Handguns book and where did you get it, maybe i could get one, because my dad and I both like Llamas (even though as of 2-16-06 neither of us has shot one yet, but i do own a .40 S&W 1911 Llama, and am gonna' shoot it soon).

[Big Foot]

The book is entitled, Spanish Handguns by G. Gangarosa....Can't remember the cost, but there were used & new at the time, and I believe it was from Amazon.com....They not only have a lot of factual info, d.o.b's, etc, but the pictures make i.ding a pistol/revolver a snap. If you own or plan on owning a Spanish handgun, this really comes in handy...Note: It is not a "how to" book, like fieldstripping, etc...Just a pictorial, factual history of the pistols...Hope this helps.....

[comp]

The book is entitled, Spanish Handguns by G. Gangarosa....Can't remember the cost, but there were used & new at the time, and I believe it was from Amazon.com....They not only have a lot of factual info, d.o.b's, etc, but the pictures make i.ding a pistol/revolver a snap. If you own or plan on owning a Spanish handgun, this really comes in handy...Note: It is not a "how to" book, like fieldstripping, etc...Just a pictorial, factual history of the pistols...Hope this helps.....
thanks ,, may look it up

[chitoryu2454]

i have a llama minimax 45 and after the aforementioned tinkerings and polishings mine is rock solid ( i also believe that it and firestorms are the same gun). it handles fmj jhp and cast lead round noses.
the finish on my gun was a bit ruff. i can safely say this gun afforded me the oppertunity to investigate and modify. i was sorry to see them go...but after seeing several firestorms i think part replacement issues are mute. for the money i think they are a bargin and one of the good low end guns to start with...that is if you dont mind tinkering and learning.