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fdingen
1st May 2012, 14:32
Dear all,

Possibly I want to buy this Springfield 1911 (.45acp): https://picasaweb.google.com/113247533435624891096/Springfield1911

I have some questions about this gun:

1) Do these grips belong to this gun?
2) Are the slide and sights original?
3) Why does it say F1 Brazil on the side of the frame?
4) The trigger looks like a 1911 style (not A1) is this correct to this model?

I'am quite familiar to the Colt versions (thanks to the clawson book) but not the Spingfield.

They ask 550$ for this pistol.

Thank you for any information.
Frans

AOCM.RET
1st May 2012, 16:55
Dear all,

Possibly I want to buy this Springfield 1911 (.45acp): https://picasaweb.google.com/113247533435624891096/Springfield1911

I have some questions about this gun:

1) Do these grips belong to this gun?
2) Are the slide and sights original?
3) Why does it say F1 Brazil on the side of the frame?
4) The trigger looks like a 1911 style (not A1) is this correct to this model?

They ask 550$ for this pistol.

Thank you for any information.
Frans

OK, after some research on the Internet I found some interesting things about Springfield Armory, Inc. From what I discovered, I would say this pistol was assembled in Brazil, as per the prefix of N in the serial number. The "FI Brazil" stands for Fabrica de Armas in Itajuba. This was originally a government-owned arms factory in Brazil - IMBEL assumed control over all state-owned arms facilities in 1975. The Itajuba factory began producing a domestic copy of the 1911 in 1965.

In 1974, the Springfield Armory name was licensed to Robert Reese, who formed Springfield Armory, Inc. The facility is located in Genesco, Illinois, where they assemble the 1911A1 pistols using components produced by IMBEL. An interesting note: The first two directors of the Custom Shop were Les Baer and Jack Weigand.

Information I found in two other forums indicate that the N prefix pistols are not as well made as those with a NM prefix and that the latter is assembled in the USA, but of course with IMBEL components.

I am not sure if the grips are original, but you can see the grip screws have been removed several time; possibly for in-depth cleaning or parts replacement. From the information I found, the sights are now placed on the slide here in Genesco.

The price being asked may be in range.

Sorry I could not provide any more specific information on this pistol. I'm sure there will be an springfield expert along to provide more information.

Edit: In that all this infomrtion was obtained from other forums etc. .... be carefull what you take onboard as hard truth. :D

Be safe

wjkuleck
1st May 2012, 20:24
Dear all,

Possibly I want to buy this Springfield 1911 (.45acp): https://picasaweb.google.com/113247533435624891096/Springfield1911

I have some questions about this gun:

1) Do these grips belong to this gun?
2) Are the slide and sights original?
3) Why does it say F1 Brazil on the side of the frame?
4) The trigger looks like a 1911 style (not A1) is this correct to this model?

I'am quite familiar to the Colt versions (thanks to the clawson book) but not the Spingfield.

They ask 550$ for this pistol.

Thank you for any information.
Frans
Hi, Frans,

S, Inc. has had a myriad of models and variations over the years. As ACOM.RET, suggested, someone very conversant with S, Inc.'s products over the past 30 years can give some guidance as to originality.

That having been said, is "originality" all that important? It appears that the slide is an S, Inc. slide consistent with the frame. The rear sight does not appear to be the kind of neat and tidy installation I would expect of a factory or even a skilled amateur. The grips are easily changed if they are not to your liking, as is the trigger. "FI" has been explained by ACOM.RET.

The price would seem to be very fair in the USA; I have no idea what the market for M1911s is in the Netherlands, however ;). More important than originality is the condition of the individual pistol you are considering, though.

Regards,

Walt

Spyros
2nd May 2012, 03:30
The grips look like the second set of factory grips sold with these pistols, the first being a set of wood grips.

John
2nd May 2012, 04:43
That pistol has definitely not shipped from the factory like that. The rear sight is installed by an amateur gunsmith for sure. The hammer doesn't look to me like anything Springfield has ever made or installed on their guns. The barrel appears to be the standard, two-parts Springfield barrel. Some small parts are way more polished than what the factory ever offered. If you add the butchered screws, I think it's safe to assume that someone has been playing with this pistol and that somebody was not a good gunsmith.

So to answer your questions:

1. I do not think those grips came with the pistol.
2. Slide is original, not the sights though. While Springfield did offer pistols like that with adjustable Bomar sights, they were mounted very low in the slide, not like that.
3. Most Springfield pistols are made in Brazil, very few are assembled in US from Brazilian parts. The mark is correct.
4. The trigger may or may not be correct. If the pistol started its life as a "GI" or a "Mil-Spec", then it is probably correct. Again, like the grips, this is a minor issue.

The price for Europe seems cheap. Another reason that should make you think twice, but again, I have no idea what the prices are in your country.

Spyros
2nd May 2012, 06:41
Technically, the sights aren't Bomars, or even Bomar-style... they are an LPA cut. Springfield's adjustables are also an LPA cut (apart from some custom models). However these are both high and oddly fitted... that longitudinal clearance cut (or whatever it is) is definitely not factory.

The frontstrap and dust cover are squared. This is typical of a pre-2003 pistol.

The grips could well be factory, though. Here's a picture of a (later) Springfield Milspec (the stainless version of which is what I'm guessing yours started life as) complete with its case and various bits... including a set of grips remarkably similar to yours.

http://pictures.gunauction.com/6317122425/10951304/6393bd3afc2b2adde1904e2086c57403.jpg

fdingen
2nd May 2012, 12:18
Thank you all for this valued information.

Today I had a good look at the gun, besides the pictures.

I do not want to buy a bad gun, and often hope to find a more original piece. I dont like the tuned and updated versions.

I took a close look at the screws and indeed they are badly damaged, my colt from 1944 has better screws... Also the hammer has a different finish (color) than the rest of the gun, not to mention the sights...

In The Netherlands this is an average price for these type of guns.

Again, thanks.

Frans

John
2nd May 2012, 12:22
Frans, good call. Stay away from it. It doesn't inspire confidence.

The hammer is probably a Colt Commander one or a Para Ordnance old hammer. Nothing wrong with them per se, but that assures me it's a parts-gun.

Spyros
2nd May 2012, 14:50
CDNN has such hammers, too... cheap, so I assume they're castings.

Cerberus
3rd May 2012, 03:43
Respectfully, I would not touch it. Besides the butchered rear sight and damaged grip screws, the extractor fit looks suspect as well.

Bruce P.
6th May 2012, 19:04
My 90's vintage champion, looks similar, although parkerized. The grips are original. I still have mine. The only thing that sticks out is the rear sight install. My loaded has the same extractor fit. pretty much stock.

Bigun
14th May 2012, 19:08
Frans, good call. Stay away from it. It doesn't inspire confidence.

The hammer is probably a Colt Commander one or a Para Ordnance old hammer. Nothing wrong with them per se, but that assures me it's a parts-gun. I had one very similar to the pictured piece with a better job done on the Bomar rear sight. The hammer and grip safety are identical to the ones on mine and I believe they may be factory original. I replaced the Grip Safety and mainspring on mine with S&A parts, restaked the plunger tube and it was a fine shooter.